Mandating Students wear helmet and pads?

**baseitr6** · July 12th, 2009, 08:37 PM

So if you have a thousand base jumps you're invincible and dont need a helmet anymore? Sweetness

**vid666** · July 12th, 2009, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by baseitr6

So if you have a thousand base jumps you're invincible and dont need a helmet anymore? Sweetness

If you have a thousand BASE jumps, you are probably a big boy who can make the helmet decision for yourself.

Personally I think it's fucking stupid not to wear a good helmet and BOOTS. I see a whole fuckload of people wearing sneakers on less than optimal jumps. I don't want to be their walking stick when they twists their ankle.

***mknutson*** · July 13th, 2009, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by baseitr6

So if you have a thousand base jumps you're invincible and dont need a helmet anymore? Sweetness

ROTFL.... I still have not hit 1,000. I was wondering what will magically happen when I get there. I am excited now!

**Boeris** · July 14th, 2009, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Cloudtramp

That's what I'm saying. I think that this is the core problem. Is 100 skydives really enough to understand the dangers of BASE? I think not. Maybe it's enough to develop a basic skill set but not enough to develop a healthy respect for the true dangers involved. Especially when you are talking about young males suckled from an early age on (un)healthy doses of MTV sports and YouTube. (yes, I fall into that category too)

Well come on, everyone's different...you know that. I just took a FBJC with a mire 137 skydives (but within the last 11 months). There's something to be said for ones whos taking canopy courses and constintly reaching for a higher education on the flight characteristcs of a ram-air parachute.
8 of my friends also did the same course, at the same time. I was definitely low man on the skydive count by 100+ jumps. We had a few with up to 1000+/- skydives. Point is, I did a lot of studying on my own in preparation for the FBJC and spent a lot of time thinking about the reality in the dangers involved...and more importantly how it could effect others.
I've read this staement on this forum before and agree, someone with 50 skydives could be more prepared than some with 1000. It depends on the person.
I also think it should be a personal preference on the gear. This discussion is very similar to the motorcycle helmet law. That being said, I think it would suck being a student with a mentor that disregards gear. I believe if you are going to take the responsibility of mentoring someone you should promote safety gear in anyway you know possible...It's part of your job. Once they are on their own, then they can then make an educated decision.

**Mac** · July 15th, 2009, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Boeris

Well come on, everyone's different...you know that. I just took a FBJC with a mire 137 skydives (but within the last 11 months). There's something to be said for ones whos taking canopy courses and constintly reaching for a higher education on the flight characteristcs of a ram-air parachute.
8 of my friends also did the same course, at the same time. I was definitely low man on the skydive count by 100+ jumps. We had a few with up to 1000+/- skydives. Point is, I did a lot of studying on my own in preparation for the FBJC and spent a lot of time thinking about the reality in the dangers involved...and more importantly how it could effect others.
I've read this staement on this forum before and agree, someone with 50 skydives could be more prepared than some with 1000. It depends on the person.
I also think it should be a personal preference on the gear. This discussion is very similar to the motorcycle helmet law. That being said, I think it would suck being a student with a mentor that disregards gear. I believe if you are going to take the responsibility of mentoring someone you should promote safety gear in anyway you know possible...It's part of your job. Once they are on their own, then they can then make an educated decision.

There is still some difference in perhaps being prepared skillwise and having a true understanding of the dangers, which is what CloudTramp was getting at I think. I believe that spending a few seasons skydiving help to expose one to injuries and death. This does help understand more so the dangers of parachuting than spending less than a year in the sport cranking in lots of canopy time.

Yes someone with 100 jumps may have the skills and attitude, but until you see people femur or tib n fib in, or loose friends in skydiving, I don't think [GENERALLY] young skydivers (young = low time in the sport) dont really appreciate what that's like. [I know some people will have experienced this outside skydiving in other outdoor pursuits but I am talking generally].

***mknutson*** · July 15th, 2009, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Mac

There is still some difference in perhaps being prepared skillwise and having a true understanding of the dangers, which is what CloudTramp was getting at I think. I believe that spending a few seasons skydiving help to expose one to injuries and death. This does help understand more so the dangers of parachuting than spending less than a year in the sport cranking in lots of canopy time.

Yes someone with 100 jumps may have the skills and attitude, but until you see people femur or tib n fib in, or loose friends in skydiving, I don't think [GENERALLY] young skydivers (young = low time in the sport) do really appreciate what that's like. [I know some people will have experienced this outside skydiving in other outdoor pursuits but I am talking generally].

Spot on IMHO...

**Cloudtramp** · July 15th, 2009, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Mac

Yes someone with 100 jumps may have the skills and attitude, but until you see people femur or tib n fib in, or loose friends in skydiving, I don't think [GENERALLY] young skydivers (young = low time in the sport) dont really appreciate what that's like. [I know some people will have experienced this outside skydiving in other outdoor pursuits but I am talking generally].

Couldn't have said it better.
In my 11 years of Skydiving I've seen about as many friends die. (That's just the people I've known personally) More than I can count on my 2 hands, in fact they just unplugged yet another friend last night

) I've held bleeding and dying friends in my arms while they go to another place, I've seen more than enough femurs poking out of legs, broken backs, hips, skulls, faces. Running around in the woods looking for a friend whom you hope might be OK but you know you're just going to find a pile of flesh. I've also taken my own ambulance ride to the emergency room with a broken back, i've seen my girlfriend airlifted to the hospital. I've seen different people make the same mistakes time and time again. The list goes on and on, and this is just that "safe" other sport. And I tell you what, it definitely affects my decision making when it comes to BASE Jumping. I know it's not a soft world out there and ive seen what it can do to you and your loved ones.

so... How much of this have you seen in your 11 months of skydiving?

**Boeris** · July 15th, 2009, 12:14 PM

You know what, you guys are right. No matter how much I could try to prepare myself emotionally for a signifigant loss, there's just no way it could be done. Until you experience it first hand, you're kinda of in the dark to some degree I suppose. I definitely see where you are coming from. Appreciation for the sport will come with experience, this I know.
I have seen several people get hurt skydiving, even a low hook turn which ultimately resulted in death. Never has a close friend to me, in front of my own eyes, been hurt in this sport. I hope it never happens. We all hope that....But reality is, we all know, that is just wishfull thinking. It's not if, it's when right? Same thing we say about riding a sportbike (trust me I've seen a lot of knarly shit on the pavement). I mean, the longer one is in the sport, the chance of seeing people get hurt will increases. I believe as long as I know that, am ok with it, continue learning emergency proceedures, and not only make wise decisions on my part but help others make wise decisions too, then I am as prepared as I can get...without having 5, 10, 20 years of experience.

**Greenmachine** · July 17th, 2009, 04:34 PM

Until a skydiver has an A license they are required to
have an AAD, wear a helmet, etc, etc. which makes
good sense for 2 reasons: a) probably a smart choice
given their skill and experience level and b) it gives
the DZ better liability protection since it shows due
diligence.

I have only minimal experience working with BASE
students (since I am still a newbie) but all of them
were required to wear helmet and knee pads until
they were able to jump solo, then like others said
it comes down to personal choice.

**Mac** · July 17th, 2009, 05:21 PM

Skydving rules and regulations are about protecting the lowest common denominator, in BASE, you are on your own without anyone looking out for you....

**borat** · July 18th, 2009, 06:00 AM

Education over regulation my brother otherwise there is jumping out of planes if you feel the need of the big brother telling you how to live your life.

I agree there, well said.
I like the fact that I can decide what to do and nobody can be telling me to blow my snotty nose or do up my shoelaces.

**Greenmachine** · July 18th, 2009, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Mac

in BASE, you are on your own without anyone looking out for you....

Um, well if you teach yourself to jump...

If you have a mentor then they are there
by definition to look out for you, and hence
he or she can set their own requirements.

I agree, it is all about personal choice.
The amount of stuff I wear depends on
the jump.

**inlikeflynn** · June 25th, 2010, 03:16 PM

I know this is an old thread but I think my recent experience is relevant. I did an an FJC in Norway with Stavanger BASE Klubb about 4 weeks ago. It was an excellent course and all students are required to wear helmets, kneepads and footwear with ankle protection as a minimum. I also followed the advice on this and other BASE oriented sites about protective equipment. My gear included Hanwag boots (previously used for paragliding) a top quality ski/snowboard helmet, foam kneepads with a hard plastic shell and padded cycling gloves. I also spent a small fortune on hireing a large canopy to train for accuracy landings. Despite all these precautions I f*!ked up the landing on my 2nd jump and hit a rock. I received a bad sprain to my left wrist (which I have just been told by my GP is a broken scaphoid), a graze to the palm of my right wrist, a very badly bruised left knee and bruises on my right leg and left butt cheek. My head also hit a rock with considerable force but the helmet saved me from any head injury. The only reason my left knee was bruised is because the initial impact pulled the knee pad to the side as I rolled over the rock. If I wasn't wearing good quality kneepads my knee would have been shattered. As it was I was able to complete 7 more jumps over the next four days after taking one afternoon off. Qualified and experienced jumpers can make their own choice but as a newbie I am glad I was wearing some protective gear. When I am fit to continue I will be wearing even more protective gear (as well as doing a load more canopy training at my local DZ).

**Uberchris** · June 25th, 2010, 04:33 PM

what sold me on pads was when the guy who taught me how to pack/basic rigging/pilot chute selection/different delays/etc etc (mentor-ish) showed me a pair of his knee pads, which each had about a 1/2" deep by 1" long gash on both of them. it spoke for itself.

a buddy of mine watched someone slam into a solid object from a 180, and literally knocked all his front teeth out on impact because he did not have any facial protection. I am gonna purchase a full face predator helmet in the near future, which is debatable by some (peripheral vision, blocks your vitals if you are hurt bad, bulk and weight, etc). I feel like for any solid object jump i would be better protected with a full face helmet.