Learning from the List

[Mac]

What are your thoughts about learning from others deaths?

I post this as I put on BJC, the following:

When somone goes in, I think the whole "gimme the facts and details" is inane. Someone died, and it’s terribly sad, really sad, even if I don’t know them, I feel pain. I don’t need to know each and every detail of a jumpers passing, because I don’t actually think we learn anything of worth from it. Knowing what bindings Shane had, knowing if this guy was proxy flying in squirrelly winds, none of it will help you. We will all continue to make our own decisions, we will all continue to try and minimise and control the risks for us, just as everyone who has gone in has done..... we think about our own mortality and do everything to ensure we don’t go in. Not once have I had consideration of someone on the list when gear checking, or planning a jump, I think about me not them.
The whole we must learn from the mistakes, I think in BASE is mislead. People have gone in, and some have made some fundamental mistakes. But you should not be making fundamental mistakes in this sport, as you will die. Surely we are through the gear and method testing phase in the sport, we know what works, and it is now the very much incalculable human input that we are trying to learn from..... to me thats impossible. Yes the sport is progressing into new areas, (proxy flight, ski base etc..... but still, the flight concepts and deployment theory is not that different to what is known already..... people fuck up, not winds or gear).
Intricacy of fatalities are worthless to learn from, what we do is a hectic and ever changing in an organic environment. You can do everything right and die........ so whats to learn from that? Just that you might just die jumping.

Thoughts to family and friends.......

and in response to a reply I also put this:

I disagree somewhat. I never put a pull up or band around my PC to pack because I understand what it means to me. Not because there has been a couple of fatalities linked to it. You should not have to learn from someone frapping that putting a packing aid around your PC may just be an issue should you forget.

My point is that you should manage your own risks, and if there was something to learn from the list.... then actually it has to be something fundamental in changing method ......

So just wondering.......

Michael

[BASE1190]

I think for an experienced jumper, you may be correct that in many cases there isn't much to learn from new fatalities. I do believe the BFL is an important tool for upcoming and less experienced jumpers. Many of the things that you and I might take for granted such as jumping only proper BASE gear, not jumping in adverse weather conditions, not using packing aids for PCs, etc., may not always be obvious to the inexperienced jumper. Someone had to show me that 2+2=4, although today I have a tendency to think, "Who doesn't know that?". I use to think the BFL was an invaluable tool also for hitting home the point that BASE jumping is a dangerous pursuit. Most everyone says they realize the potential consequences of BASE when they are starting out, but I don't think many truely understand until they start witnessing or experiencing tradgedies first hand in BASE. I don't currently wingsuit base or ski base, but before I do, you can bet I will review the available information including accident analysis.

[Mac]

I use to think the BFL was an invaluable tool also for hitting home the point that BASE jumping is a dangerous pursuit. Most everyone says they realize the potential consequences of BASE when they are starting out, but I don't think many truely understand until they start witnessing or experiencing tradgedies first hand in BASE.

100% agree with that.....

I don't currently wingsuit base or ski base, but before I do, you can bet I will review the available information including accident analysis.

So would I.......

[shadycharacter]

I regularly take a look back over the fatality list. I feel that the information included in it has helped me to better understand the risks involved in base and the variety of potential problems and mistakes to be made. BASE has ended up killing some very experienced jumpers and for knowing why has helped. I do however agree with Mac that sometimes people go a little too far with the whole "he must of been doing this or that wrong" rather than just accepting it as a tragedy. I also feel the information has helped me in my decision on whether to start BASE. When I do start, as an inexperienced jumper i am sure my mentor and fjc instructors will warn me of many of the risks and mistakes that can be made but i will also have in mind those that I read about in the fatality list and on the discussions on the BASE boards I read.

I suppose I think that if a lesson can be taken from someones death by anyone while maintaing respect for the fact a life has been lost then that has to be a good thing.

I've been reading all your threads for a while now and I hope my first post has made a bit of sense.

[Mac]

I've been reading all your threads for a while now and I hope my first post has made a bit of sense.

It did

[BASE1190]

I do however agree with Mac that sometimes people go a little too far with the whole "he must of been doing this or that wrong"

Maybe some people overanalyze the situation in an attempt to come up with an excuse as to why it can't happen to them.

[base_bin]

hi, writing as a keen skydiver with hope of doing fjc base later this year i want to learn as much as possible about base and have read hundreds of skydiving / base fatality threads in last few months & agree that often not a lot is learnt from that partic incident, but i think a key reason for this is that the person who cld provide the most accurate info or fill in the missing gaps so to speak is no longer here (as a result most are filled with speculation & conjecture). i wish that there was more non fatal incident threads, i feel if an expereienced basejumper telling about his/her injuries or near misses & what they thought was the cause or sequence of events leading to the incident would be very informative.
this is not a request for people to post, as per shady's post hopefully i will meet a mentor who will freely share such experiences. so much to learn.