Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: BaseR Discussion

  1. Header
  2. Header-59

BLiNC Magazine, always served unfiltered
  1. #1
    SplatulaSponsoredAthlete lifewithoutanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Asylum Profile
    Posts
    632

    BaseR Discussion

    I put this over on basejumper.com... I figured I might as well put it here:

    Here's my response to the interview and the subject in general. Note, the following are my personal opinions on the matter. I have never met Sonic, never spoken to Sonic, nor do I have a personal war-waging vendetta against him. He seems a likable enough guy, but my personal opinion is that he is not suited, nor has he earned the privilege to manufacture or market BASE gear.

    For all intensive purposes, he has a rather brilliant business model. He's essentially an order-taker with a direct line to JumpShack who manufactures the rig using a TSO'd wonderhog harness beneath an otherwise 'anything-goes' container and slaps a TSO'd reserve on the front. The only thing stopping me from personally ripping apart one of my skydiving rigs and doing the same is that I lack an FAA Master Rigger's ticket. I could get someone governmentally qualified to do this for me, and for far cheaper than one of his rigs.

    Why cheaper? [I'll get to why that's important in a moment...] Because he's using a skydiving gear manufacturer and I'm not. I saw the same thing a few years ago with the reverse-engineering of a $250 (retail) speed-flying harness that turned into a laughable $600-800 ground-launching harness. The difference? The former was made in South Korea (designed by a Korean paragliding company) and the latter by an FAA-certified parachute manufacturer. Not hard to guess who has the higher labor costs or why.

    Many people keep asking or pointing out that Morpheus, Apex, Asylum have not TSO'd a rig or have not sought this 'innovation'. First, a TSO rating runs at least $40k and upwards of $60k. Granted, Sonic didn't have to TSO the gear, he essentially licensed an existing TSO. Thus, the reality for any of the long-standing BASE gear manufacturers is that their [presumed] already slim margins get even slimmer when they're licensing an existing TSO rating or are at least paying some royalty for the use of it. May not even be that simple... They'd probably have to directly order a manufactured harness to incorporate into their rigs. Beyond that--I can only speculate on the liability--I'll bet someone goes in on an FAA-certified rig and the manufacturer is looking at a legal shitstorm. Someone goes in on a BaseR, JumpShack looks fucked to me. They've got a legal, certified standing from the FAA in the square of their lower back. Might as well be a bulls-eye. Any of our long-standing BASE manufacturers are pleasantly uninsured, pleasantly unregulated.

    Beyond that--and I've only talked to a couple of people on this--I'll wager the decision to not seek a TSO rating is largely philosophical in nature. BASE gear has always been somewhat difficult to come by, or if not difficult...at least qualified. For good reason. I won't say that Sonic doesn't use discretion--because I don't know--but he does market his course as an FJC. An FJC for what? It's the same term Apex, Morpheus, Nitro, Snake River, Johnny Utah, Miles, Splatula and Asylum use. But is it the same syllabus? I'll wager 'no' given that Sonic's course is designed for skydiving in preparation for BASE, not actual BASE, so not a BASE FJC. Leave that to Miles, at least.

    In the meantime, what's the big deal of gear being more accessible? To me, the problem is that it's marketed to any A-licensed dickhead, whether the marketing is that explicit or not. Face it, "you can take a BASE rig out of a plane" is what this is designed for. All too often, we see "how do I get into BASE? 150 skydives and gear is so expensive!" where we should hear "how do I get into BASE and not kill myself in the process?" Budgets are more important than your ass? It would seem so. I worry about the jumpers this rig may attract, or if not attract, the jumpers that will too easily put themselves in a position to fuck themselves up, die, or more selfishly, make it more difficult for me to jump. Yes, I said it. I'm that selfish. You have to earn the ability to fuck shit up for me. I do not care about your life if you don't put forth the effort to save yourself.

    On the final point where money is concerned, no, I don't think Sonic is doing this for the cash. Not so much in that he's going to get rich off this, at least. I believe in his ability to support his family, but ultimately, I view it as an outside-BASE entity taking money out of the pockets of those who have earned our business through years of innovation and toiling over sewing machines, not just one leap that makes it easier for us to skydive with BASE gear.

    Nothing personal,
    -C.

  2. #2
    Captain Bacongrease Para_Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Gargoyle
    Posts
    430
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    You don't have a myspace page that says your 20 and claim to have a kid in the military. And probably someone's pet rabbit boiling in a pot somewhere.

    You're unqualified to discuss BASE issues.

    But that is an excellent piece Coll.
    - Harvey
    BASE 1232
    BLiNC Team Member

  3. #3
    SplatulaSponsoredAthlete lifewithoutanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Asylum Profile
    Posts
    632

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    Harvey, I'll take half of whatever you're on. I don't know what that is or what you're saying, but I want some of it.

  4. #4
    Captain Bacongrease Para_Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Gargoyle
    Posts
    430
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    I forgot...you're a lot younger. My movie references are lost on you.

    Thread drift...you coming to the PG thing in Sun Valley?
    - Harvey
    BASE 1232
    BLiNC Team Member

  5. #5
    SplatulaSponsoredAthlete lifewithoutanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Asylum Profile
    Posts
    632

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    I got the rabbit in the pot reference, but not the myspace/20 year old thing.

    Thread drift. No, won't make it up there for that. Will be up in Twin sometime in early April, though.

    -C.

  6. #6
    Captain Bacongrease Para_Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Gargoyle
    Posts
    430
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    Well make it before the 13th - I leave for Air Assault School.
    - Harvey
    BASE 1232
    BLiNC Team Member

  7. #7
    ShamWOW sponsored Ahole
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Apex DP
    Posts
    262

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    You'll have fun with that. Tell'em you don't go for the 21st century crap. You wanna go old school with the DIY goldline harness and non-locking carabiner.
    "What we have here is a failure to communicate. There's some people you just can't reach."

  8. #8
    perfecting mediocrity Blitzkrieg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Gargoyle, Profile, ApexDP, Prism1
    Posts
    130

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Para_Frog View Post
    I leave for Air Assault School.
    isn't it a little late in your career to face the "ten toughest days in the army"?

    personal curiosity, will you be attending "the" air-assault school, or some other silly thing?

    ...and stitch, he won't have to say anything... they still teach old school.

  9. #9
    Captain Bacongrease Para_Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Gargoyle
    Posts
    430
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    Yes. It's VERY late in my career for such nonsense.

    I got peered into it by a much younger LT who wanted me to go with him for moral support since I've been to a few tab schools already and stay in pretty good shape - he's a logistician assigned to the Cav and has never been to one. I agreed.

    My orders came through...his didn't.

    So the minus is I'm rolling solo and will probably be the oldest dude by like 15 years. The plus is - I'll be tabbed out. Done. Fuck it. No more suffering. I'm trying to view the whole thing as a Pathfinder refresher. That was 93.

    And yes...it's all still old school.
    - Harvey
    BASE 1232
    BLiNC Team Member

  10. #10
    perfecting mediocrity Blitzkrieg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Gargoyle, Profile, ApexDP, Prism1
    Posts
    130

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    man, that's funny. but i can assure you it won't be a pathfinder refresher... more like a "did you pack the right amount of the right colored socks" kinda thing.

    nothing like getting yelled at by 20 year old NCOs.

    have fun!

  11. #11
    Captain Bacongrease Para_Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Gargoyle
    Posts
    430
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    Lovely. Like I have the tolerance for THAT. Good times.

    OK...sorry Collin...back on topic...

    My $.02 = If Sonic left the BASE FJC business exclusively to Miles, then more power to him. Miles is an excellent instructor. Period. Regardless of the rig used. And I don't care what the opinions are about his ethics, Red Bull, blah blah blah. I know the man and I know his method. Solid on both counts. Miles is on the very short list of people I would let teach a loved one BASE.

    If Miles can sell some BaseRs along they way for Sonic - good on him. I wouldn't own one just because of personal preference.

    Having said that - in any way associating a BASE FJC with a dropzone is ridiculous. If you want to jump your BASE canopy (and you should) jam that fucker in a gigantic student rig and go for it. That's what I did with my BJ at Abbie's DZ.
    - Harvey
    BASE 1232
    BLiNC Team Member

  12. #12
    SplatulaSponsoredAthlete lifewithoutanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Asylum Profile
    Posts
    632

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Para_Frog View Post
    Having said that - in any way associating a BASE FJC with a dropzone is ridiculous. If you want to jump your BASE canopy (and you should) jam that fucker in a gigantic student rig and go for it. That's what I did with my BJ at Abbie's DZ.
    Well, along this model, I've decided to start 'preparing students' for swooping, but not in a true skydiving environment. I don't think it's that big of a deal, though. They can take what they learn from me back to their dropzone. They'll be just fine. I'll be holding ground-launch sessions at off-DZ sites around the country. Some sites will be better suited than others, but just gonna wing it. Not selling any gear, but I've got small canopies to rent out and I've read Brian Germain's book front to back a few times over. I'd present a syllabus, but that'd be meaningless.

    Okay, that's as far as I can take it. Pretty ridiculous, no?

    -C.

  13. #13
    Captain Bacongrease Para_Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Gargoyle
    Posts
    430
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    Yeah, but you know swooping. How much BASE does Sonic really know that is useful to impart as an instructor?

    That would be like me teaching swooping.

    One word - fence.

    Nuff said.
    - Harvey
    BASE 1232
    BLiNC Team Member

  14. #14
    SplatulaSponsoredAthlete lifewithoutanet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Asylum Profile
    Posts
    632

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Para_Frog View Post
    Yeah, but you know swooping. How much BASE does Sonic really know that is useful to impart as an instructor?

    That would be like me teaching swooping.

    One word - fence.

    Nuff said.
    No. I'm about as qualified a swooper as Sonic is a BASE jumper.

    -C.

  15. #15
    Captain Bacongrease Para_Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Gargoyle
    Posts
    430
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: BaseR Discussion

    Well then for God's sake man. Be careful out there.
    - Harvey
    BASE 1232
    BLiNC Team Member

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. BaseR and BaseX
    By Zephyr in forum The 'Original' BASE Board
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: September 14th, 2010, 07:30 AM
  2. BaseR ???
    By rushchaser in forum Beginners Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: September 24th, 2009, 10:02 AM
  3. Call for discussion on a forum for discussion of tabu subjects
    By BASE652 in forum The 'Original' BASE Board
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: March 27th, 2004, 06:46 AM
  4. FLORIDA BASER's
    By Devil in forum The 'Original' BASE Board
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 30th, 2002, 12:46 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •