Freefalling Low Objects: DW

[Mac]

Stumbled on this and thought it maybe of interest or discussion as this was almost 10 years ago with Dwain Weston about freefalling low objects:

Name: Norway
E-Mail:
Subject: Free falling low objects...
Body of Message:
I'm looking for some opinions about free falling low
objects, as to get the absolute fastest opening:
What kind of pilotchute should we use? Does a 52 inch
PC open slower than a 45 etc.?
Does the tail gate slow the opening down?
How to hold the PC during exit. Exit with it open,
holding it by the attachment point?
Loosen up the mid section on the velcro flap?
Thanks and CYA!!
Added on Date: 21:12:52 8/24/98

Name: Dwain Weston
E-Mail: DwainWeston@bigpond.com.au
Subject: Re: Free falling low objects...
Body of Message:
: I'm looking for some opinions about free falling low
: objects, as to get the absolute fastest opening:
I'm assuming by 'low' you mean right on the cutting edge - not the Norwegian definition of 'low' (less than 10 sec delay).
I am by no means an expert on this (expert being somebody who has at least done some scientific experiments and comparisons), but I can give you my own personal thoughts and techniques for freefalling low stuff (around 200ft) and landing on hard earth.
You can divide a deployment up into two stages: 1.reaching line stretch, and
2.canopy expansion and pressurisation.
First I will discuss achieving line stretch as quickly as possible.
A lot of jumpers mention methods for getting the p/c inflated as quick as possible and having the velco just mating on the edges for minimal resistance when extracting the shrivel flap.
While these things aren't a bad idea, the fact remains: it doesn't matter how fast the p/c inflates and how quickly the shrivel flap is removed, if the p/c doesn't yet have enough force to lift the weight of the canopy from your back.
Canopies are heavy things (approx 7.75lbs for a FOX225 and 7.2lbs for a Mojo220). The p/c needs to lift this weight through to line stretch (although when the canopy clears the burble on your back it will be aided by the relative airflow).
Therefore to acheive line stretch as quick as possible you want maximum p/c lifting capacity at minimum airspeed (ie. you want it to be exhibiting greater than 8lbs pulling force before you fall very far). This obviously means don't use a 38" p/c at 200ft.
I've found a 46"zp p/c works well for extracting a Mojo220 on a one sec delay from a 210ft cliff. I've used 48" F111 for short delays as well and couldn't really notice a difference in opening height. I can't comment on anything bigger like 52" as you mentioned because I haven't jumped one.
As far as holding the p/c by the attachment point and exiting with it inflated, I personally don't think it would make a differe
Added on Date: 02:47:54 8/26/98

Name: Dwain Weston
E-Mail: DwainWeston@bigpond.com.au
Subject: Re: Free falling low objects...
Body of Message:
Here is the second part to my ramblings....
As far as holding the p/c by the attachment point and exiting with it inflated, I personally don't think it would make a difference in the speed of achieving line stretch (provided that you pitch the p/c with the centre line extended, not with the mesh against the zp or F111 material). The p/c will inflate quicker with the method you mentioned
and it may even pull the shrivel flap off quicker, but it will hesitate at lifting the weight of the canopy off your back until you reach the minimum airspeed required (which depends on the weight of the canopy and the p/c used as well as a lot of other variable factors).
One potential problem with this technique is that you will be letting go of the p/c right near the burble on your back which could cause a hesitation or worse. My personal technique is to S-fold the p/c in my hand all the way up and pitch it out there. When the wind gets strong enough to lift the canopy off my back the p/c will be inflated above me.
Once the canopy hits line stretch you begin to decelerate. How quickly you decelerate depends on the time it takes for the canopy to expand and
pressurise. This is dependent on an almost infinate number of variables.
The main ones you can control are canopy selection and packing techniques.
Nose exposure is obvious. Also exposing the centre cell bottom skin aids the intial spanwise expansion.
As far as the tail gate goes I have heard different arguments:
One is that it constricts deployment and therefore will slow the spanwise expansion down a little bit. The other argument is that because it helps the canopy open nose first you get faster pressurisation in the cells, and therefore you decelerate quicker and chew up less altitude.
Weight of the jumper is another factor. For example, you and a friend are planning to freefall some evily low site for the first time. You both have the same gear, configured and packed the same, except you weigh 100kgs and your friend weighs 60kgs. If he/she goe
Added on Date: 02:58:48 8/26/98

Name: Dwain Weston
E-Mail: DwainWeston@bigpond.com.au
Subject: Re: Free falling low objects...
Body of Message:
This is the third part to my ramblings...
If he/she goes off first, gets pressurisation then immediately does a PLF (parachute landing fall) without getting his brakes off, you may want to think about doing a p/c assist instead (or losing some weight).
Another technique I have heard discussed is packing in shallower brakes for when you don't have enough time to get your brakes off and therefore have to flare on rear risers. Now while pressurisation takes slightlylonger to achieve with shallower brakes, you will get a better flare with more forward speed. I have used this technique with good success on quite a few occasions, ...although 'Safety Sam' says you shouldn't be opening that low (but then again how much fun does 'Safety Sam' really have?).
The lowest freefall I have heard about over hard earth without serious injury (broken bones) is 170ft. This was done by a newbie jumper who misinterpretted a theoretical response. "Yeh, you could freefall from 170ft" an exprienced jumper stated, meaning "Yeh, you would probably live", not "Yeh, we do it all the time". Apparently the newbie jumper limped away in a rather shocked and upset state from his first and only attempt.
Anyway, good luck and let us know how you go and what heights you are going from. Remember, that when you are freefalling from 200ft, any hesistation will result in you getting spanked. Consider it a mild form of Russian Rullette (there goes 'Safety Sam' again - curse his fun-killing voice).
Added on Date: 03:06:51 8/26/98

[tfelber]

Quote:

The lowest freefall I have heard about over hard earth without serious injury (broken bones) is 170ft. This was done by a newbie jumper who misinterpretted a theoretical response. "Yeh, you could freefall from 170ft" an exprienced jumper stated, meaning "Yeh, you would probably live", not "Yeh, we do it all the time". Apparently the newbie jumper limped away in a rather shocked and upset state from his first and only attempt.


There have definitely been some changes in thought, understanding, and capability since DW made this comment. I know a certain UK jumper that has freefallen from 172' many times (probable getting near 40 or so now maybe even more) without an injury. He had a couple of off headings where he got damn lucky, but generally he has about a 5sec canopy ride. I know he was using a 52" PC at one point. I don't know if he has tried other sizes. He throws the PC upwards and as it reaches bridle stretch he exits. I wouldn't try it but he has been quite successful. Hopefully he will chime in with more details.

Tony

[fixMe]

If your talking about greeny. he had an off heading there and landed on the rocks at that place (rub****x) , and kinda hurt his ankle, the last time i saw him he was limping a little as he was telling me about it (around a year ago). I actually think he did about 6 in a row there one day. HE'S got balls and skill that guy. Plus he's got his gear configured for low shit. i.e. shortened lines, shortend bridal, vents made twice as large as regular vents, all ZP top skin, all for a faster opening. and maybe more.

He also actually found an even lower spot there around 162ish i believe and started exiting there as well.

Ive been there a few times. That place scares me, only because of me. I'll just say i had a 1-2 second canopy ride.

ta ta

[nicknitro71]

There are many factors to take into consideration when one attempts to FF low shit. Some are:

1. Density altitude. If you jump in CO you might want to reconsider FF objects that are FFable at sea level. For instance 240' is FFable on most places...if you're a mile up it might be a very sketchy jump, or not...

2. Size of the tarp. The bigger the tarp the more altitude it eats up for opening, this is true regardless the presence of valves.

3. The lading area. If you jump over a boulder field and must make a full flare or find a spot between boulders to land, then it's advisable to have a fully flying/controllable tarp and a few seconds of flight time to allow you picking up a spot and flaring. On the other hand if you are jumping an object surrounded by nothing my soft grass you can get away by PLFing leaving the brakes stowed.

4. The length of the bridle. I found that the "industry standard" bridle is way too long for short FF. 4-6' from the last pin is all you need. However if you go with a shorter bridle the snatch force it's going to be reduced. My set up for short shit is a 5' bridle (finished from eye-eye, so about 4' from the last pin and a 50" Z-po PC with no vent and no handle, I jump 220/240 tarps).

5. Your throw technique. What works for me is to hold the PC by the attachment point and throwing it up gently as my feet leave the object.

6. The presence or not of fat Tony. If fat Tony is present don't push it because chances are you'll go in. Tony's presence is the physical representation of Murphy's law.

[tfelber]

The first time I was there with him about three years ago he was jumping standard gear and a 52" PC that he had made for him. We did two that day, I went SL and it still scared the shit out of me. He made 12-13 that week. I know he has been making more equipment mods; I heard about the larger vents. So it sounds like the third off heading came with a little longer term reminder. I haven't talked with him in a couple of months, but he didn't mention getting hurt that last time we spoke.

[mysty429]

Just to clarify.... when Greeny hurt his ankle it was exiting from the upper exit point before you lower to the slabs and get to the normal exit on this particular 'E'. I jump this 'E' regularly and have done so with Greeny for a good few of his jumps at this location. This particular jump of his is INSANE to say the least. 1-2' to run, about 12' to the other exit vertically, and 6-12' (???, but far) horizontally. You have to pass through a 'V' shaped chip in the rock, near the original exit, to stand a chance. I believe the running exit, pitch as you pass the normal exit, caused the offheading and not so much the low freefall technique. He called me from the bottom of this one and I knew he was ing.

Cheers guys,
Taylor

(By the way he is going much much lower now, and for these counts he'll have to chime in)

By the way.... Wonderful readings from Dwaine. Thanks for posting this!!!!

[fixMe]

hmmm, i could have sworn he told me he hurt his ankle from landing in the rocks or what not, but maybe i mixed things up, i haven't seen the guy in awhile and you see him often and jumped with him often so i'll assume.......
later or ta ta

[mysty429]

....left off 'hurt ankle landing in Talus'.

~Taylor

[fixMe]

....left off 'hurt ankle landing in Talus'.

~Taylor

no problem !!!

later!

[Faber]

did any freefall sub 150ft as of yet?
I know that 150 can be done,from videos ive seen,i also think from thouse videos that improving exit and through tecnice you MIGHT be abel to freefall lower..specialy if you improve your gear ie shorter bridel,zp topskin,vents etc etc
Its too long time ago i played in the sub 200 area so im not fit for doing so by now..plus i gained extra weight he he
Greeny? perhaps

[hamsandwich]

there's a british dude hanging around perris with short lined vented canopy and short bridle, etc who freefalls the doux all day long no problem. the video ive seen has him open pretty high. he was up here last year but I can't remember his name. he really likes low stuff. I'd make a small wager that he's done 150 or at least close to it. Anyone know who i'm talking about?

-

[Mac]

Sounds like Greeny...

[fixMe]

there's a british dude hanging around perris with short lined vented canopy and short bridle, etc who freefalls the doux all day long no problem. the video ive seen has him open pretty high. he was up here last year but I can't remember his name. he really likes low stuff. I'd make a small wager that he's done 150 or at least close to it. Anyone know who i'm talking about?

-

dude, start by reading post #2. we were already talking about him?

come on dude, your the super moderater!! hmmmm?

[hamsandwich]

haha! I'm lazy ass reader aren't I!

[greeny]

Guys,

The SoCal E you talk about I have 30Freefalls from, 26 from the main 173ft exit point, 3 from an exit point at approx 160ft (if you stand on the main exit point look low left.) this also make a good position to film exits from the main exit point. I also have 1 freefall from the top (approx 190ft). By the top I mean the top of the cliff before you climb down to the main exit. If you stand on top where you start the climb down and look off the cliff, my exit point was about 10ft to your left. I did a standing exit and jumped through the V you climb down to the main exit point. By V I mean as you climb down after you do the rocky traverse you climb down a muddy V before stepping onto the main exit ledge.

I have Hit the Talus 4 times freefalling this E.

1st) My first freefall from this object, I was scared and my exit was crap I got a 120R managing just to stop the turn and put in a little rear riser before meeting the talus. Main exit point.

2nd) First Freefall on my new canopy I got an 90L for an unknown and corrected to hard on R rear riser while still in very deep breaks. The canopy stalled and dropped me on the talus. Main exit point

3rd)Canopy set in too deep breaks stalled on opening and I never got the stall corrected. It was still backing up and stalling on striking the talus. Main exit point.

4th) Freefalling 160ft exit point, 7th freefall of the morning, tied and dehydrated, I decide to do one more. I had already done 3 off the main exit point one off the top and 3 off this lower exit. All had worked perfectly. I believe I didn’t commit to the last jump and got complacent. The canopy turned a little over 90L and put me over an area of talus only 130ft below the exit point. I tried to correct by releasing my breaks and turning by letting them up unevenly. I think I over compensated. I was trying to find a balance between letting the breaks up slowly and not diving the canopy or driving forward enough to clear the talus and gain a very much needed 30ft. I struck a downwards sloping of rock and rolled a couple of times badly bruising both my heals and ribs. It is always interesting being alone, upside down and wrapped up in a mess of rocks, lines and canopy thinking only to stand up and walk to the car before the adrenalin wears off and the body stiffens.

Greeny