oops (2-18-05)

**badenhop** · February 18th, 2005, 09:50 AM

http://data2.itc.nps.gov/morningreport/

**Mac** · February 18th, 2005, 10:15 AM

not knowing a great deal about the NPS etc, do you think that the reports are accurate in saying that the jumpers disturbed the birds? Or was this just a way to persecute the jumpers? Do jumpers jumping this sensitive site take these things into consideration? is it a generally known way to jump these sorts of sites?

an ecologically sensitive area currently under visitor advisories for nesting prairie falcons, peregrine falcons and golden eagles

I am just wondering how to take the article, are the jumpers at fault and thus have not done the arguement that "we dont disturb the natural environment" any good, or are the rangers just finding a way to "have a go" at people they dont like?............

just curious thats all..........

***mknutson*** · February 18th, 2005, 02:05 PM

Pinnacles National Monument (CA)
BASE Jumping Incident

On the afternoon of Sunday, February 6th, three BASE jumps leapt
sequentially from the middle tier of Balconies Cliffs, an ecologically
sensitive area currently under visitor advisories for nesting prairie
falcons, peregrine falcons and golden eagles. The park raptor monitor
witnessed the jumps, as well as extreme disturbance to raptors in their
nesting territories as a result of the sounds and motions of the
deploying parachutes. The jumps were also seen by a ranger who was on
the Balconies Cliffs trail almost directly underneath the BASE jumpers.
The jumpers, later identified as Daren Loesch, 26, Ricardo Valbuena, 34,
and Brendan Cork, 26, were immediately apprehended at the talus base of
the Balconies Cliffs in an area closed to visitors due to revegetation
efforts. All three were issued mandatory appearance citations for air
delivery and were released after their equipment was seized as evidence.
Numerous other charges are pending. Glenn Yanagi is the case ranger.
[Submitted by Glenn Yanagi, Park Ranger]

Originally Posted by badenhop

http://data2.itc.nps.gov/morningreport/

**Nick_D** · February 18th, 2005, 02:52 PM

Even during the short lived legal season of jumps in the Park in the 80s it was illegal to jump when the Perrigen Falcons were nesting.

It's nothing new . . .

NickD
BASE 194

***mknutson*** · February 18th, 2005, 03:03 PM

Well, would anyone out there be able to help create a document to state the typical nesting dates of the various birds in question?

Originally Posted by Nick_D

Even during the short lived legal season of jumps in the Park in the 80s it was illegal to jump when the Perrigen Falcons were nesting.

It's nothing new . . .

NickD
BASE 194

**Nick_D** · February 18th, 2005, 03:17 PM

Here's a start. However, I've always been suspicious that one species that flies would be all that bothered by another species that flies . . .

http://www.nps.gov/yose/news/1997/falcon97.htm

http://www.nps.gov/yose/news/2004/pere0309.htm

NickD

BASE 194

Tom Aiello · February 18th, 2005, 10:20 PM

Nesting periods are usually fairly well posted in climbing areas (such as this one). Since the jumpers were fairly experienced climbers, I'd guess that they'd have known if there was a nesting restriction. I'd bet the nesting thing was thrown in afterward to increase the charges, as Mac speculated.

***mknutson*** · February 18th, 2005, 10:25 PM

Well, I don't know them!

And also, if they are throwing in a charge that is just for the hell of it, that is bull. If we are outside the normal nesting periods, then that could help these guys in court.

Originally Posted by Tom Aiello

Nesting periods are usually fairly well posted in climbing areas (such as this one). Since the jumpers were fairly experienced climbers, I'd guess that they'd have known if there was a nesting restriction. I'd bet the nesting thing was thrown in afterward to increase the charges, as Mac speculated.

**Colm** · February 19th, 2005, 01:05 AM

I posted some thoughts on this on DZ.com, here:

http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Relate...5%29_P1489474/

To sum up, in most NPS land, nesting areas are, as a general rule, well marked. Restrictions are typically seasonal, some starting as early as December and some lasting as late as the summer. Climbers and hikers are typically also cited, when applicable, if they are caught. It may be easier to catch a highly visible parachute than a subdued-clothing wearing hiker though.

Having gone to wild nest sites, with legal permits, all I can say about disturbing the nest is that it depends greatly on the particular birds there, how accustomed they are to people, and the particular arrangement of cliff, exit point, nest, etc. A few nesting pairs have been known to tolerate an obscene amount of disturbance, whereas some will tolerate only a limited amount before abandoning. I can warn you though, from personal experience, that many species of raptor have been known to attack quite aggressively while nesting. Though I've never heard of a person under canopy being attacked, it's not at all unlikely, depending on what type of nest it is. A jumper could get injured, a bird could get injured by the lines, not a pretty picture! (I've seen a 200lb adult male get knocked out cold by a 1-lb prairie falcon--literally. fortunately he was not flying canopy

)

Furthermore, if a jumper physically damages a nest site or a bird, intentionally or not, there are some pretty heavy penalties, much worse than "disturbing the wildlife"

I doubt these jumpers did any harm, but it's just part and parcel of respecting an object if you ask me.... but I'm a tree hugger.

**Colm** · February 19th, 2005, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by mknutson

Well, would anyone out there be able to help create a document to state the typical nesting dates of the various birds in question?

I can work on it... lord knows i've been sitting on my Ar$e lately. In general, seasons go from January until all the chicks are gone.... April, May, June-ish. It appears in this case, that the restriction was put in place sometime in January, and included several other cliffs in that park. It's great to learn about, but even if I thought a site was empty I'd still respect the park's closure. Both to set an example and because they might know something I don't, keeping tabs on the site constantly.

It's not really a law that parks can apply willy-nilly to people they don't like. You either have violated the protected area or you haven't. If I suggested they discriminatingly applied it against only jumpers, I'd only be speculating without any basis to back it up....

**Raymond Losli** · February 19th, 2005, 06:35 PM

Hey... Avery
Remember when all of us got tickets in Washington State Parks...
for, Disturbing Sensitive wildlife. Nesting Falcons.... Trespassing on *Public Property*... Illegal take-off and landing of Aircraft.

Falcons are hardly endangered. I see them all over the place. Even nesting in down town buildings around here.
They seem to be Rugged and adapting creatures. as long as you don't.....
Keep Shoving DDT down there Throats.

When Falcons start to grow... Opposing Thumbs, Create Civilization and Rule the Earth.
That's the time I will start to consider a lesser species an... EQUAL.

...........................

My Point Being:

If they do not want you playing in there Cat Box. They will Throw Every Excuse at you.
to keep you from Threatening there little word they have created around them and
Undermining there strangle hold of Control they have Created just for ...YOU..

In my opinion the Park Services can...Kiss My Ass.
.
also:
Our... Worthless...Piece of Crap Lawyer, Rolled over on us.
.
.

**badenhop** · February 19th, 2005, 07:40 PM

Hello Ray,
Yeah, I was thinking of just that when I read the morning report.
Crazy, we were just watching some video from that tour of PDX.
Some incriminating footage will be on the soon to be released