Hi,
Just making my first slider up jumps, I have a technical question. For a 4-6 sec. with Fox, what slider control is the best:
direct (stowing slider)
indirect (using the single stow located between the Tail Pocket and the canopy)
or both ?
Thanks guys and be safe
Jerome
Both! and use a larger pc for sub terminal slider-jumps (42 or 40zp).
Remember to (same for talegate) make sure that the D-lines is routed correctly ;outside, not "under" the slider! This is the easyest mistake to do on both tale-gate and direct slider-control. A wrong routing of the D lines may result in an of-heading opening, especially on subterminal openings.
I`m not an expert but I do most of my jumps with slider up. Any other opinions on this mather?
Have fun!!!
>make sure that the D-lines is routed correctly ;outside, not "under" the slider!
Whoa! I hope this is a language barrier. Routing the D lines outside the slider will result in slider hangup, slow opening, non-opening, serious injury and death, not necessarily in that order.
Can you please post a follow up and explain what you mean by this?
--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu
Sorry bad english ! of course the lines go`s TROUGH the slider! I `m glad you saw that ! what I ment is
that it goes on the correct side of the rubber band wen you secure the slider . When you look down on the packjobb at that stage , it is possible that the D-lines goes "under" the slider secured to one of the C-lines, but off course TROUGH the slider!!!
It would be a dangerous missunderstanding to rout the D-lines outside the slider all toghether!
SORRY SORRY !!!!
I jump a fox and have not noticed a difference in heading or inflation when I stow the slider or not, so I don't do it anymore. I always double wrap the locking stow (large rubber band) in the tail pocket.
I love slider up jumps.
see ya
I try to explain how I pack my slider in order to see: 1: if I do it right(!!!); 2: if it is what Jolly Jumper meant.
Once I have done the main folds (A-B, B-C, C-D) on the canopy, I carefully take the slider up: the mesh/tape parts of the slider connecting front with rear risers are taken carefully and folded within the B-C fold (middle of canopy) as outward as possible until grommets touch the relevant "grommet stoppers" on the canopy. Now I have the mesh/tape parts of the slider connecting left with right risers just hanging there, onto the canopy. What I do at this stage: I walk back to the container, I put into my right hand the innermost C-D (red) line on the rear right riser (this is in fact the right center C-D line, whose colour is red because it belongs to the tail gate group lines) and I walk up to the canopy with this line in my hand, when this right center C-D line becomes two, I follow it in its C line extension and then through its relevant slider grommet towards the canopy as if I were pretending to use a tail gate, clearing any other possible line that could come on the way until I reach the point where the line ends with a loop and it connects with the canopy (through a white ribbon sewn onto the lower canopy foil): just here, through this white ribbon, there is the small rubber band in charge of direct control of the slider. What I do now is to make and grab a "bundle" of mesh just taken from the center of the slider, 5÷7 cm (2÷3 in) long and wrap around it 1 or 2 times the above rubber band (2 times if the jumps will be done at terminal velocity).
I think (and I hope!) that Jolly Jumper, by "outside" meant the fact that the center right C line (the innermost line on right rear riser) does not catch/go over/go under any other line in its path from connector link up to the canopy, where the rubber band stands, so that the rubber band can go straight from the ribbon onto the canopy to the "center" part of slider and wrap it, without catching any other line.
Stay safe out there
Blue Skies
Andrea
#689
Ahh. Now I see what you meant.
Trapping a line between the slider and the direct stow line could definitely create squirrely openings. The line would tighten before the slider came out of the stow, pushing the slider/stow to the side, and promoting off-heading (at the very least) or worse.
Thanks for the clarification!
--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu
Hi Jerome -
I like to use both direct control and indirect control on the slider during all of my slider-up jumps (slow and fast airspeeds). By direct control, I'm referring to rubber-banding the apex of the slider to a center C-line. And by indirect control, I'm referring to the primary stow on your lines before placing them in the tailpocket.
My thoughts behind this are as follows:
I want to stage the deployment in the proper sequence as much as possible.
On any parachute jump (be it BASE or skydiving), tension knots may occur if the slider starts traveling down before the lines have reached full tension during the deployment sequence.
Direct contol of the slider helps to ensure the slider stays at the top of the pack job until you begin to get bottom surface expansion. Once bottom surface expansion occurs, the slider is released and can begin it's deployment down the lines, which are loaded at this point, meaning that there is no slack in the lines.
Indirect control ensures that bottom surface expansion does not occur until all of your lines have been deployed from the tail pocket.
So my theory is indirect control keeps it all together until it is time for bottom surface expansion and direct control keeps the slider up until bottom surface expansion actually occurs.
This is why I prefer to use both direct and indirect control vs. one or the other.
Now, with all of this being said, please remember that I am not the authorative expert on slider control. Many jumpers out there have good theories behind what they do. And as your doing, it's a good idea to seek out all of the different choices and then make an informed decision for yourself.
Have fun out there -- slider up jumping is a blast!
C-ya,
Bryan Stokes
I totally agree with you, I have the same ideas about that and it works for me.
Hey,
My packing techniques are as follows for slider up:
To directly stow the slider I put a black rubberband on the center c - both sides.
1.) I pull the slider up as far as it goes - grommets facing up toward me (really doesn't matter which they are facing - this is just what I do).
2.) I then push my finger up to find the center of the slider and take a pinch halfway between the center and the right side - pull this up and fold it in half. With this chunk of slider I take the rubber from that side and wrap it around twice.
3.) Exact same procedure with the other side.
! The double stow is another attempt at keeping the opening as symmetrical as possible !
That's it - no direct stow at the tail pocket - I have found this is an un-needed procedure. If you are directly stowing the slider, there is no need to perform the indirect stow at the tailpocket - in fact, I never use this device.
Subterminal slider up jumps between 1 and 8 seconds are the MOST dangerous jumps - especially if you deploy between 1 and 4 seconds on a jump where it can be taken lower - say between 7 or 8 seconds or around 1000 feet of useable. This early deployment is usually due to inexperience.
An early slider-up deployment gives the pilot chute time to orbit and the canopy time to be influenced by the pilot chute. Of course the pilot chute is not the only force that can turn the canopy (i.e. bulky cascade junctions, wind, body position, etc.), but it has been proven to often have an adverse effect.
After extensive field testing, next month Basic Research will be offering a new and improved vented pilot chute with an adequate size small-hole mesh vent (i.e. big on smaller pilot chutes and smaller on big pilot chutes). This pilot chute has been devloped to reduce the orbiting factor during these and all types of jumps, but the orbiting pilot chute is most obvious and dangerous during subterminal slider-up jumps
Have fun and take chances...
JIM:-)
I think the stow at the tail-pocket does not only keep the slider up, it also keeps the canopy from inflating before line-stretch. That's why I use both.
cya, obi
You use both because you are a german barsta#d you liked the sticker ha ha ha ha ha take it easy a$$hole...
bsbd feral
the best colour smack is pink:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(
>After extensive field testing, next month Basic
>Research will be offering a new and improved
>vented pilot chute
>This pilot chute has been devloped to reduce the
>orbiting factor during these and all types of
>jumps, but the orbiting pilot chute is most
>obvious and dangerous during subterminal
>slider-up jumps
Now that's an original thought! Thanks for copying, oops, I mean "developing" this product for the community.
:-)
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