Hi,
Having just few basejumps, I am unable to define why my openings are always 90 to 120 degrees left.
Since packing has been defined good, I suspect position being not perfect.
I have 2 videos at www.pcv.ch/jerome/video showing 2 jumps from a bridge 106m. I jump Fox245, reactor3.
Someone could help me?
Thanks Jerome
Ask Team Ill Vision, they always have 90 lefts too!
And would have flailed at BD comp., only to put Team Absolut Psilution on top. Cheers.
Hi Jerome! Update your link, doesn't work. More than likely your PC is turning your canopy due to asymmetricalness of the PC attatchment to bridle. Check to see if the PC is making a counterclockwise orbit motion, let us know. take care,
space
Correct URL is http://www.pcv.ch/jerome/Video.htm
There is some PC movement (although it is difficult to make out in detail in one of the videos) but in my inexperienced opinion, I don't know if it is significant...
Hey Jerome one thing I noticed in my 1st ten jumps was when I went stowed I seemed to have a tendency to get up to a 90 degree left off heading. I believe it was due to dipping a shoulder while pitching, but pc orbiting is also a possible explanation. Just my low experience opinion.
Later
Gabe
Hi Jerome:
I had a nearly identical problem a couple of years ago. I believe these off headings are caused by body positioning. Here are my best guesses as to what's happening.
1) Assymetric Throw: I really think this was the problem for me, and watching your video it looks like it's your problem, too. You are throwing the PC with the right hand, but are not moving your left hand at all. That means that your body's equilibrium shifts during the toss, and you are off center during deployment. In my case, this generated consistent 90L openings on all of my early hand held deployments (it wasn't until I noticed that it never happened stowed that I isolated the problem). It looks like you're getting the 90L's too. I fixed the problem by pitching symmetrically to maintain equilibrium. In other words, I now move my left hand EXACTLY as I move my right hand, simulating a "fake pitch" with the left at the same time the right makes the real pitch. That way, my shoulders stay aligned, and my body doesn't start a rotation based on a "right arm only" movement (it's the same principle as pulling your left hand in when you deploy a stowed PC).
2) Pilot Chute folding: It looks like you are holding the pilot chute at the bridle attachment, allowing the PC to partially inflate in your hand prior to deployment. This will cause some drag on that side, pulling your right side (and shoulder) high, and causing a left off heading. Usually, this is only a problem with delays of 2+ seconds, or with huge PC's, as the extra force generally won't overcome your bodies inertia unless it is fairly strong. To fix this, I'd recommend 'S'-folding the entire PC (not just the bridle), including the mesh and ZP, into your hand to create a compact bundle. Not only does this create a tighter bundle that can be tossed to bridle stretch more easily, but eliminates the "extra drag" problem described above. The downside is that it may induce PC orbiting, if you toss the PC forward rather than up (so an oscillation dampening PC like the CR A-V series might be helpful here).
The second guess is really just a guess, since I've always folded my PC into a tight package in my hand. The first one, though, is based on a whole lot of grief, video, thought and discussion that I went through trying to solve the problem for myself (it worked for me, though).
Hope I've helped. Have Fun!
--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu
Hi Jerome, just saw the video, The 2nd jump clearly shows the counterclockwise PC orbiting motion, It is a fairly large radius, The PC almost makes a full orbit be for opening, Check the symmetry of the PC,
Also though I didn't see evidence of it be aware that crosswind depolyments tend to turn into the wind at low to med wind speeds....
Take care,
space
Thanks for your inputs, you cannot imagine how helpful they are.
Jerome, Switzerland.
Hi Jerome-
Hope you don't mind my ading my two cents, I think it may help. First I should say for whatever reason I haven't seen your video but I would concur that tracy's orbiting pilot chute may be problematic. That problem most seriously results from an asymmetric PC, but can apparetntly also occur from an assymetry in the attachment knot etc.
My experience is that with a solid pack job your body poisition has to be really off for it to have much of an effect. I would look at your pack job, especially closing hte container, its likely that somehow in your closing you are producing a regular asymmetry that may be causing your regular L openings.
Regarding Toms suggestion of being symmetrical with your left hand as you throw, that may make a difference, and Toms a prettty thoughful guy so I don't doubt he feels that was important for him. But, particularly at low airspeeds, that shouldn't make much of a difference at all. The importance of level shoulders really comes in during the later stages of deployment, eg line stretch and canopy inflation. At low air speeds this is noticably after pitching your PC, possible a solid second or so after. So theoretically (and from pratical experience) you can scratch your ass, pick your nose, or reach around and flip someone off behind you (if your quick!) right after pitching, but settle into a nice RELAXED level-shoulder position during actual line stretch and through canopy opening. Now of course I'm slightly exagerating, and you do want to avoid having the pack job come off your back all asymmetrically but I guess i just don't see moving your left had with your right as you pitch as making much of a difference. play with it, off a bridge optimally, and see what you think. I'll summarize by saying I'm not trying to be critical of toms comments here whatsoever, but don't overlook the importance of being relaxed, and squared up symetrically during the later stages of deployment.
Have fun-
DT :D
Thanks DT,
Having read your comments I am looking for an expert here in Switzerland to reassess my packing.
However, I saw that I am not throwing the PC in a front of me, but in the right hand side. Then, it seems that the PC is orbiting quite a lot. Is orbiting due to that or attachement ? well, I do not know. But, fortunately, the bridge I am jumping is really safe. So, I'll test everything before next earth or bulding jump.
You can also see the video at:
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/jeanneretjerome/
But you need realplayer addins.
Hey. Here's the deal:
Your body is unsymmetrical and your rig is perfect. When you tighten your leg straps, you don't need to make sure that you tighten them symmetrically... When you do that, one side is taking all of the load. When you tighten your leg straps, play with your shoulders (shrugging, etc) to ensure that there's even slack/pressure on both sides. OK?
It has nothing to do with your pilot chute (as long as it isn't home made)... pilot chutes don't come from the factory unsymmetric.
Try going PCA. That'd eliminate the: pc, packing, and body position theories. The only possible problem left is the way that your rig sits on your body.
It appears to me that your canopy starts pointing to the left before completing line stretch. How much of a crosswind were you jumping in? I would suspect you had a significant crosswind blowing to the left (by opening direction but if this was the case you landed downwind, if the winds were the same at opening altitude as the landing area). If the wind was blowing to the left, I would compensate by tensioning my left legstrap *slightly* more than the right legstrap. Remember, the canopy frequently acts like a windsock and will generally point toward the downwind line during opening.
Secondly, I see the PC orbiting but it doesn't look significant enough to dramatically affect your opening. You can minimize that by various techniques discussed in previous threads. For longer delays, this can DEFINITELY be an issue.
Now the grey area of canopy opening hypotheses:
Are you 45 degree folding your stabilizers? Are you reducing the overall width of your pack job toward the tail or nose? Without knowing this, it's difficult to pinpoint the answer to your off-heading problem.
party 'til impact - Chris
AV is absolutely wrong!! if you read my post/time posted, you will see that I accurately described the Counterclockwise pc orbiting possibility before viewing the video..your pc was asymmetric and that was THE cause. Guaranteed!! I do speak with more experience than most anybody in the field of observing deployments in base. PC´s can come from the factory asymmetric, but normally it is a result of not anchoring it to the bridle symmetrically.
though the other points AV speaks of are of value but not as decisive as the Orbiting PC in heading performance..
take care and feel free to contact me in Bayern and we can up your skills in basing,tracking,rigging and such.
take care,
space
>Hey. Here's the deal: truncated;
>It has nothing to do with your pilot chute (as
>long as it isn't home made)... pilot chutes
>don't come from the factory asymmetric.
>Try going PCA. That'd eliminate the: pc,
>packing, and body position theories.
Hi Space:
Could you describe what is meant by "assymetric attachment" of the PC?
Are we talking about getting mesh pinched in the larkshead? Or larksheading in part of the centerline? Or letting the larkshead slip down to the side of the attachment loop?
I guess I'm having trouble visualizing how assymetric attachments happen, and why they are so common.
--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu
hey Space, I'd be interested in more info on this also. I currently larkshead my bridle through the centerline loop and the PC attachment point, making sure I have equal amounts of mesh coming from either side, I also make sure the end of the loop in the bridle is larksheaded to the end of the loop in the centerline, (ie centered and symetrical I hope) sound right???? Thanks in advance, cya
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