Velcro vs. Pin

[guest]

Hello,

I am in the process of buying my first BASE rig, and I am having trouble deciding between a pin-closed or a velcro-closed container. I am trying to accumulate as many opinions as possible before making my decision (I've already asked everyone I know and am getting a 50/50 answer), so if anyone would like to share an opinion on this subject or direct me to something that may have already been written about it, I would greatly appreciate it :D (I should probably mention that I will be starting with jumps like the Perrine bridge and then possibly Moab and other legal jumps in the U.S. which mostly seem to be fairly low.)

Thanks!

BSBD...
Keely

[guest]

For a first rig, I'd recommend a velcro rig.

Velcro rigs are simpler and easier to use.

With a velcro rig there is reduced possibility of (a) misrouted bridle, (b) sloppy pack job effecting pin tension, causing premature opening or PC in tow, (c) worn closing (loops or velcro) going unnoticed.

Velcro rigs are also far better for hand held deployment (which your early jumps should be), since bridle flap can cause premature pin extraction with a pin rig.

Basically, for a first rig, the hand held issues of pin rigs, and the possibility of sloppy packing (far more survivable in a velcro rig), should point toward a good (fairly loose) velcro rig.

If you want some thoughts on which rig (specifically) to buy, post a follow up and I'll subject you to my random thoughts on that subject.

I hope I've helped.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[skyymooner]

I'd like to hear your random musings on the subject. I am looking at the different velcro closed containers at the moment, and trying to make a decision on which one to buy if Bridge Day doesn't fill my need and send me packin'.

[guest]

Keely,

I'm curious as to the 50% who's telling you that a pin rig is a better choice for a first BASE rig... I'd question their experience with both.

With no question I'd recommend a velcro closed BASE rig as a first. Velcro rigs are good for prolly 90% of the types of BASE jumps that most jumpers do. Where a pin rig really shines is LOW LOW objects (sub 200 foot freefalls) because it takes less force to open a properly packed pin BASE rig than velcro, (we're talking microseconds) and terminal freefalls (more secure closing). I'm assuming that you live in the usa and most of your BASE jumps will be in the 300-876 foot range. The other area where pin rigs are recommended is in wingsuit BASE again because they are closed more securely than velcro.

I'm assuming also that you are a new BASE jumper since you stated that this will be your first BASE rig... with that in mind, know that pin rigs are trickier to pack (must assure proper pin tension). They're not harder to pack, only that your pack job must be pretty consistent to ensure similar pin tension from pack job to pack job. I know when I was new in the sport my pack jobs were pretty inconsistent... and still after jumping for over 5 years, I do still have the occasional sh*tty pack job... we all do.

I only got a pin rig so I could use the best gear configuration for terminal wingsuit jumps. Of course, I use my pin rig for other jumps too but don't use velcro for terminal wingsuit jumps.

But don't ask me... ask a gear manufacturer who makes both for their advice... I'd recommend Anne and Todd at BR as they are etremely informative AND make all three types of rigs (velcro, single pin, and double pin singel canopy containers ).

Best of luck with your decision!
C-Ya at the EP!!!
Denise

[guest]

Thanks for the info, Tom and Denise!

For the record, it is actually the most experienced jumpers who I've asked that have recommended I get a two-pin rig. (This is partially because I have mentioned wanting to do wingsuit BASE jumps later on.) But my logic is pointing to a velcro rig for a first container because it seems simpler, so this is why I am trying to get more opinions.

Anne from BR is the first person I asked, and rather than telling me what I should get she showed me the different containers to help me make my own decision. So I will go over it more with her when she returns from Norway and go from there...

Once again, thank you for the input - it has been very helpful :D

BSBD
Keely
shotgun@uia.net

[guest]

>For the record, it is actually the
>most experienced jumpers who I've
>asked that have recommended I get a
>two-pin rig. (This is partially
>because I have mentioned wanting to do
>wingsuit BASE jumps later on.) But my
>logic is pointing to a velcro rig for
>a first container because it seems
>simpler

Hi Keely,

I'm glad you're getting lots of opinions. For the record, many jumpers will recommend a 2 pin rig over a one pin. It's been explained to me and I agree that that is because 2 pin rigs "look more like" traditional velcro rigs. If your need is to look to the future and you wanting to do wingsuit BASE (BTW... this is the EXACT decision I had to make 6 months ago) then I'd recommend for that a single pin rig. Again, talk with Anne as you are planning to when she returns.

However, you are a new BASE jumper and it will (HOPEFULLY!!!) be a while before you are flicking yourself off of big walls with lotsa nylon (wingsuit) wrapped around your body. By then, you'll be wanting another BASE rig anyhow... trust me... you will. :-)

Timing works out well for you. Get a velcro rig... get current in BASE... make lotsa BASE jumps.... get your packjob fairly sound... buy another rig in time for your first wingsuit jumps! :-)))

IMHO...
Denise :-)

[guest]

you might also want to contact rob jones at morpheous technology as he also makes all three and could give you good insite hope this helps i am also a new base jumper 19 years skydiving and just started base at nrg last year and perrine bridge in twin falls idaho and am haveing a ball i bought a velcro rig myself and am very happy with it and my pack jobs have been good as this is the easiest rig going to pack so keep checking and make your choice and be safe hope to see you out there soon til later have fun & love each other seeya mb65

[guest]

I am wondering what, if anything, a 1 pin rig can do better than a 2 pin. I have never seriously considered a 1 pin, for the reasons already stated, they just don't look like any rig I'm used to. Can anyone give me some good reasons for buying a single pin container?? I would think the 2 pin would put less force on each pin, thus making a piolot chute in tow less likely. I'm sure some of you have some ideas on this. Thanks in advance.

[guest]

Good reasons for buying a Prism (the only single pin container I am familiar with) over a two pin rig.

1) More secure closure for wingsuit flight: The airflow over your back in wingsuit flight catches the top of the pin flap, and some exposed bridle, on a two pin rig. The Prism's top flap completely hides the pin, making it far more secure in wingsuit flight (or backtracking, but wingsuit is the major concern).

2) Contrary to your impression that the two pin rig necessarily has lower pin tension: The pin tension of any rig will depend on the container design, closing loop length, and pack job. Given these variables, the tension on any single pin container can be more, less, or equal to the tension on any two pin container.

3) Less exposed bridle: The Prism's design exposes less bridle to the airflow, making a premature deployment less likely.

In summary, either the one or two pin design can be well implemented, and either can be poorly implemented. In my opinion, the best implemented pin rig on the market is Basic Research's Prism. I have over 300 jumps on my Prism, and I LOVE it.

Disclaimer: You must form your own opinion. I am not an expert.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[guest]

Keely,

However you decide, thanks for the pork chops the other night, they were great . . . !

Nick
BR

[guest]

Forthwith, my thoughts on velcro rigs.

My Criteria--A Velcro Rig Should Be:
1) Secure: Once closed, should stay closed, even at terminal, despite any contortions by the wearer.
2) Simple: No extra bells or whistles. Easier to use means fewer potential errors or malfunctions.
3) Durable: The velcro should be long lasting (I'd like to get 100 jumps before changing it). The other parts should be so durable that wear is never an issue.
4) Easy: Closing should be a breeze. You shouldn't have to wrestle with your canopy to get it into the container (when properly sized). This can also effect (1) Secure, above.

Note that my criteria do not include Fashion (if looks worry you, go skydiving) or Wingsuit suitability (I wouldn't use a velcro rig with a wingsuit).

I will evaluate the rigs I have personal experience with here (Vision, Perigee II, Reactor 3, Reactor 4). Note that I do not have sufficient knowledge of the Wizard, Odyssey or Medusa to evaluate them.

1) Security: The Perigee II and Reactor 3's that I have seen have definitely had security issues. They tended to pop open along one side of the shrivel flap, generally as a result of being manufactured too tight for a normal pack job. The Reactor 4 and the Vision both stay closed very well, with perhaps a slight edge to the Vision for it's extra wide velcro. (I have heard that CR has loosened some of the new Perigee II's up, so they may be better than the ones I have seen).

2) Simple: The clear winner here is the Vision. It has all the things you need, and nothing else. No hard to close air dams, no funky riser coverage. Just the basics.

3) Durable: The materials used for all these rigs are first rate. The Vision, by virtue of it's extra wide velcro, may last a few jumps longer before replacement. On the other hand, I've heard of a few cases where the hardware on the Vision was substandard, and had to be replaced. The Perigee II appears to have the best quality control on materials. So, here I'd say it's a tossup.

4) Easy: I have packed all four of these rigs. The clear winner was the Vision. It's easy, easy, easy to pack. The Reactor 4 is the runner up. Both the Reactor 3 and the Perigee II are difficult to close, leading to disruption of the pack job and possible velcro blow out.

So, my recommendation for a first rig is a Vision. It's simple, easy to use, and durable.

The manufacturers of these rigs are:

Vision: Gravity Sports (530) 582-4747
Perigee: Consolidated Rigging (916) 652-8111
Reactor: Basic Research (909) 940-1324

Other rigs include:
Odyssey: Paratech Rigging (250) 542-4487
Medusa: Morpheus Technologies (813) 780-8961
Wizard: Vertigo (435) 259-1085

Disclaimer: I am not an authority. Ask around and evaluate the rigs for yourself.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu