Now, They're All Piling 0n . . .

[guest]

This is about Hollywood trying to gain a permit to film a BASE jump for the movie "Mission Impossible II" with actor Tom Cruise. It's significant as it occurs not in a National Park, but a State Park.

WARNING: This is so ridicules. Don't read this right after dinner if you want to keep it down . . .!

Nick_BR


By Zack Van Eyck
Deseret News staff writer

ST. GEORGE — The decision stands: No BASE jumping will be allowed in Utah's state parks.

And it doesn't matter if the would-be daredevil is from Holladay or Hollywood.

The Utah State Parks and Recreation Board declined to take any action Thursday, leaving intact its previous ruling to ban film production crews and
anyone else from orchestrating BASE (Buildings, Antennae, Spans and Earth forms) jumps.

The issue surfaced several months ago when filmmaker John Woo made the first-ever request for a permit to BASE jump inside a Utah state park. He
was turned down by the park manager, then appealed to the board.

Woo, working on Paramount Pictures' production of "Mission Impossible 2," had asked for permission to send someone — possibly actor Tom Cruise — off
the top of southeastern Utah's Dead Horse Point.

Cruise, or a stunt double, would have been wearing a parachute, but state parks officials were nonetheless concerned that something would go wrong, resulting in expensive rescue efforts. And even if the producers agreed to pay any such costs, which they did, officials worried the practice — if permitted —would spread to the private sector, lead to a number of permit requests and ultimately raise issues of liability.

After appealing park manager Rock Smith's decision, Paramount abruptly withdrew its appeal prior to a board meeting in late August. The film company decided to substitute special effects for an actual BASE jump, according to parks officials. But the board agreed at that time to revisit the issue in its November meeting, held Thursday.

BASE jumping has become a popular activity, albeit illegal in most cases, among a certain group of extreme outdoor enthusiasts. A 60-year-old woman died recently when her parachute did not open while BASE jumping in California's Yosemite National Park. Ironically, she was jumping to protest a National Park Service ban of the activity.

Board members hinted they would keep the BASE jumping ban in place during a public hearing Wednesday night in Santa Clara.

Board member Norman Nielsen worried that if an exception in the policy were made for filmmakers, the general public could argue they should be
allowed to BASE jump, too. Smith, other staff members and board members agreed.

"I really feel this is inappropriate at the park," said board member Lucille Tuttle. "I really feel we should say it is prohibited."

A big concern for board member Bill Hedden is that BASE jumpers might indirectly endanger the lives of others. If Tom Cruise, for example, jumped off
Dead Horse Point, children visiting the park might rush to the edge of the cliff to watch him go over, endangering their own lives, he said.

Smith pointed out that refusing the BASE jumping permit did not cause the economy of southeastern Utah to crumble.

The filmmakers came anyway and the park alone made $12,000 in revenue from other scenes Paramount filmed in the park, he said. The board had also agreed to re-examine its process for appealing
decisions like the rejection of permits. While there is no formal policy in place, persons whose permit applications are rejected can now appeal to the board.

"It is not encouraged, nor is it expressed" that applicants can appeal to the board, said Courtland Nelson, director of the Division of Parks and Recreation.

Board members agreed a more formally stated policy might encourage more appeals. They said the process should not be so flexible as to create a scenario in which every staff decision is appealed to the board. They left the current procedure in place.

END

[imported_mknutson]

<center><font size="1" color="#ff0000">LAST EDITED ON Nov-12-99 AT 07:52&nbsp;PM (EST)</font></center>

We are living in a very critical time in the HISTORY of cliff jumping on a free planet!

This type of blatent discrimination is the same people who said BLACK people were inappropriate persons to be drinking from a white persons water fountain, or using a white bathroom or going to school with a white person.

This attitude also agreed that WOMEN were inappropriate persons to vote!
This attitude also agreed that JEWS were inappropriate persons to live on our planet.
This attitude kept Mandell in prison for over 10 years.
This attitude killed Martin Luther King Jr.

How much longer must we be governed by this attitude?

When do we stop bitching and start fighting for the few things we have left in America?

This attitude is the most pethetic thing I can imagine!
When does it stop?
What does it take to make you get off your ass and yell at the top of your lungs that I have taken enough of this childish nonsense from a bunch of close minded officials/lawmakers?

The park officials I have met in Yosemite were really great to me. Maybe they are not the ones to yell at. But right now I think the larger issue is that you sit here on this forum bitching and moaning but not willing to go the extra mile to make everyone here!

TO THE UNITED STATES LAW MAKERS/OFFICIALS....CLIFF JUMPING IS NOT GOING AWAY! EVER!

STOP THE DISCRIMINATION!
STOP THE DISCRIMINATION!
STOP THE DISCRIMINATION!
STOP THE DISCRIMINATION!
STOP THE DISCRIMINATION!
STOP THE DISCRIMINATION!
STOP THE DISCRIMINATION!
STOP THE DISCRIMINATION!
STOP THE DISCRIMINATION!
STOP THE DISCRIMINATION!
STOP THE DISCRIMINATION!

ISSUE PERMITS FOR CLIFF JUMPING IN:
* YOSEMITE
* GLEN CANYON
* ZION
* DEAD HORSE POINT
* BLACK CANYON
* ARCHES
* OTHER NATIONAL PARKS

WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO TO GET YOU TO OPEN YOUR VERY CLOSED OUTLOOK ON THIS SPORT?
THERE ARE SEVERAL THOUSAND ACTIVE MEMBERS AROUND THE WORLD AND MANY THOUSAND MORE ENJOY AN OCCATIONAL CLIFF JUMP.

WE ARE NOT A SMALL GROUP. YOU JUST THINK WE ARE!
WE ARE NOW DIRECTING OUR EFFORTS WORLDWIDE!
SOONER OR LATER WE WILL GAIN ACCESS!
THE SOONER WE WORK TOGETHER, THE SOONER OUR MANAGEMENT EFFORTS CAN BE DIRECTED INTO MAKE THIS SPORT, AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE.

SET THE PRESIDENCE!
BE A HERO TO FREEDOM!
MANAGEMENT....NOT PROHIBITION!!!!!
WE ARE HERE READY TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT HOW TO MANAGE THIS TOGETHER!

[guest]

OK, let's allow you yahoos to BASE jump, but first you'll have to sign a waiver saying that you'll provide your own rescue services. Why should the rescue people have to risk their lives just because you want to get your jollies?

By the way, I'd suggest you purchase a dictionary and maybe take some spelling and grammar lessons, so that you might communicate your ideas more effectively.

[guest]

you may want to do some research yourself.you may be surprised to see how much of your tax money is already being spent on climbing, hiking,and swimming,(to name a few)and other rescues.

however,the reason they should risk their lives on our rescues is because that is part of the job they have chosen, and that is why YOU pay them the tax money YOU pay them. should we not send a fire truck to your house when you accidentally light it up, or paramedics to your families accident sight because they made a stupid driving mistake? you see, this is why public servants are paid with tax money.to provide rescue services.

as for your childish attack on someone's spelling and grammar, it's one thing if you don't understand what's at stake with the significance of our liberties, but resorting to the level of your comment doesn't show you in a very good light.

[guest]

This is obviously the work of an idiot, an antagonist, or a fisherman.
Who ever you are, be brave, expose your identity!

To the idiot: I guess the next step is to charge ALL lost hikers, ALL sinking boaters, ALL stranded climbers, and ALL the other unfortunate souls the cost of their rescue as well.

To the antagonist: Try equal treatment for ALL!

To the fisherman: Will you pull the hook out now?

P.S. Did I use proper grammer and spelling?

[guest]

If given the opportunity to legally jump from prominant objects in the NPS, we would GLADLY sign waviers and launch our own rescue efforts, just like we do EVERY YEAR at Bridge Day (thanks again, Avery). Base jumping isn't just a sport, sport. It's a culture that is based on a belief that life is about taking some risk now and then, and assuming the responsibility for that risk. Most of us are, or were, skydivers, and therefore sign waviers every year at every drop zone we frequent. We are no strangers assuming our own responsibility, and releasing others from it.

As for Mick's spelling and grammer, well, that would be passion. Obviously he felt it was more important to post the message then take the unnecessary time to edit it.

I'm sure these are foreign concepts to someone who doesn't even have the balls to take the responsibility for their own comments.

[guest]

OK, what percent of BASE jumps end up in a rescue, and what percentage of hikes or automobile trips or whatever do. That's the only way to compare, you can't just look at the absolute numbers. I bet it's a lot more!

Also, I don't equate you wanting the freedom to jump off of anything and everything you see with things like voting rights are freedom of speech. In case you haven't noticed, there are restrictions on other activities in the parks. If you want to go backpacking in Yosemite you need to get a backcountry permit. Motorcyclists aren't allowed to do donuts in the meadows, no matter how much they want to. You can only camp in certain places in the valley, and there are rules regarding what you can do in the camp sites. You can't drive a car to Mirror Lake anymore. And I bet somone who wanted to land a helicopter on the top of Half Dome would find out that that wasn't a very good thing to do. (My wife found out it wasn't a very good idea to recreate the firefall from Glacier Point. She and her friends called it the flashlight fall.)

BTW, as you can probably tell, I'm not a BASE jumper. I've done one tandem jump, but I have some friends who are skydivers. However, my wife and I have been hiking and camping in Yosemite and the rest of the Sierras for over 30 years, and have never needed to be rescued by anyone.

Oh yeah, one of the arguments some of you keep bringing up is how BASE jumping doesn't pollute like driving one of those huge motorhomes does. How do you get to Yosemite or where you are jumping? Do you hike from where you live to El Capitan?

[Gaz]

The following article is entirely fictional (well almost) and any resemblence to any Person, Place, Minority group or time (or especially any previous posting) is coincidence.

Author's note: Cliff Edge Hiking is a new sport where it's exponents risk injury and vertigo by walking close to the edge of steep declines.

ST. LUCILLE  The decision stands: No Cliff Hiking will be allowed in Europe's state parks. And it doesn't matter if the would-be daredevil is from Holladay or Hollywood.
The European State Parks and Recreation Board declined to take any action Thursday, leaving intact its previous ruling to ban film production crews and anyone else from orchestrating a cliff hike. The issue surfaced several months ago when filmmaker Jo Wu made the first-ever request for a permit to Cliff hike inside a European state park. He was turned down by the park manager, then appealed to the board. Wu, working on Universal Pictures' production of "Mission No-way 2," had asked for permission to send someone  possibly actor/singer Tom Jones along the top of southeastern European's Dead Ass Point.
Jones, or a stunt double, would have been wearing a backpack, but state parks officials were nonetheless concerned that something would go wrong, resulting in expensive rescue efforts. And even if the producers agreed to pay any such costs, which they did, officials worried the practice  if permitted would spread to the Racial Minority Groups, lead to a number of permit requests and ultimately raise issues of liability.
After appealing park manager John Smith's decision, Universal abruptly withdrew its appeal prior to a board meeting in late August. The film company decided to substitute special effects for an actual Cliff Hiker, according to parks officials. But the board agreed at that time to revisit the issue in its November meeting, held Thursday.
Cliff Hiking has become a popular activity, albeit illegal in most cases, among a certain group of extreme outdoor enthusiasts. A Hiker died recently in California's Yosemite National Park.

Board members hinted they would keep the Cliff Hiking ban in place during a public hearing Wednesday night in Santa Rosa.

Board member Norman Bates worried that if an exception in the policy were made for filmmakers, the Racial Minority Groups could argue they should be allowed to Cliff Hike, too. Smith, other staff members and board members agreed.
"I really feel this is inappropriate at the park," said board member Lucy Rebuttle. "I really feel we should say it is prohibited."
A big concern for board member Bill Headway is that Cliff Hikers might indirectly endanger the lives of others. If Tom Jones, for example, walked along the edge of the Dead Ass Point, children visiting the park might rush to the edge of the cliff to watch him go over, endangering their own lives, he said.
Smith pointed out that refusing the Cliff Hiking permit did not cause the economy of southeastern Europe to crumble.
The filmmakers came anyway and the park alone made $10,000 in revenue from other scenes Universal filmed in the park, he said. The board had also agreed to re-examine its process for appealing decisions like the rejection of permits. While there is no formal policy in place, Racial Minorities whose permit applications are rejected can now appeal to the board.
"It is not encouraged, nor is it expressed" that applicants can appeal to the board, said Courtman Neillson, director of the Division of Parks and Recreation.
Board members agreed a more formally stated policy might encourage more appeals. They said the process should not be so flexible as to create a scenario in which every staff decision is appealed to the board. They left the current procedure in place.
END

[imported_mknutson]

<center><font size="1" color="#ff0000">LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-99 AT 12:48&nbsp;PM (EST)</font></center>

I get over 40,000 requests hitting this site a day!
I do not have the time to sit here, think about being a jerk, collecting my thoughts, proof reading it then posting it just to try to piss the whole world off!

In my opinion, the people that verbally say they are against us because........
They have no spine to stand up for anything in the world! They are only making a stand here, because they think nobody knows who they are and they can bitch about them standing up for something.

This is a pretty lame way to make a stand! You don't even know what the hell you are talking about! If you did, you would see tha documents pertaining to the SAR fund that Cliff-jumpers pay into for rescue. There were 125 fatalities in the NPS last year alone (zero where parachute related) that YOUR tax funds paid for. You would also take note at the ongoing investigation of YOUR TAX MONEY for the housing in Yosemite and other NPS facilities that was almost double the national avarage cost of a built home.

But hey who the ##### am I to say you can't bitch about stupid minor tax ependitures like Cliff-jumping instead of expensive housing waste/fraud, misappropriation of funds extracted from athletes, etc...

You are right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was absolutely no reason to be concerned about the rangers camping out to catch us cliff-jumpers instead of try to catch that pervert that killed those 3 women in Yosemite. This expenditure controlling us was MUCH MORE APPROPRIATE!

Thank you for clarifying that for me!

BTW. can you help me proofread this so I don't look like a dumb-ass on paper?

[guest]

<center><font size="1" color="#ff0000">LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-99 AT 11:53&nbsp;AM (EST)</font></center>

that was beautiful shawnflyz!!!!

[guest]

I think the following fact just stated by Mick tottaly shoots down Mr. Anonymous' argument.

"SAR fund that we pay into for rescue, the 125 fatalities in the NPS last year alone (zero where parachute related)."

Anonymous goes on about how he doesnt want HIS tax money spent on recovery of BASE jumpers that are killed yet ZERO fatalities were parachute related last year. I would like to see Anonymous argue against that fact.

321-CYA
Dereck G.

[guest]

I mean no disrespect Mr. Anonymous, but at your experience level, what we'd call a "One Jump Charlie" (and because it was a tandem jump, that's a generous description), you'll never understand what motivates these people.

The most curious, the best and bravest of us humans, the ones who push and stretch all the possibilities are, even to the point of it being historical, always slammed and berated.

We are humans who can fly.
Don't you see in wonder in that?

Anything else, including any artificial boundaries set in place by "I'm here first" or "I can do my thing, but you can't do yours" will never endure.

The human spirit just won't allow that to happen.

Give us our right to fly, and we'll leave your silly little $2.00 padlocks alone.

BTW, Happy Birthday to the original "Loose Band of Brothers" (with apologies to Carl Boenish).

Happy Birthday to my Brother Marines

Semper Fi (Always Faithful).

224 years of Freedom Fighting.

November 10th 1775 - November 10th 1999

As we BASE jumpers suffer the barbs of indifference let's recall a quote from one famous Marine.

"Gentleman, the enemy is on our right and left flanks. The are in front and also behind us. Good. The little bastards won't get away this time."

"Chesty Puller"

Nick_BR

[guest]

"I've done one tandem jump"

loser

disrespect intended.

[guest]

Well Mr Anonymous,
I wish so desperately that I had some statistics for you on the types of injuries you inquire about but i'll do my best to pull a few out of my ass. As an Emergency/Flight nurse and Paramedic for the last 15 years I can't begin to list or categorize the number of rescues and treatments myself and my coworkers have done as a result of EVERY sport, daily activity or act of stupidity you can imagine. The Darwin Awards are the perfect example. You may feel that BASE jumpers fit into the stupidity category and that's your right, no one can take that away, but you make a bold statement regarding rescue personnel and the percentages of injuries in other sports vs. BASE jumping. First of all, EMS (Emergency Medical Personnel) have chosen their careers and are paid (perhaps not well enough) to do those rescues. I can't tell you how many times i've climbed into a mangled pile of steel or rapelled down a cliff in an attempt to save the life of someone who thru no fault or all fault their own is clinging to life. It's what we do and EVERYONE, including BASE jumpers are entitled to that service. If I were to respond to a call for an injury of some idiot that nearly killed himself by what I deemed an act of stupidity should I refuse to spend "tax dollars" to save him? Is he less deserving of care? How about all those drunk drivers I have to treat? Hmmmm...what should we do about those? We ALL pay for those Emergency Services and the biggest insult to that system is it's misuse by people with insignificant injuries that suck up valuable time and money from actual emergencies. People are treated in Emergency Departments every day for injuries sustained from skateboarding, biking, surfing, skiing, motorcycling and WALKING. They all deserve the same level of care and all pay for the service. No one is asking you to BASE jump or to understand why we do it, but don't isolate us into some category of nondeserving screwups. Learn to be a bit more tolerant of things you don't understand.

[guest]

Why is a jumpers jollies any different from a rock climbers, hikers, etc. We have the right to the same rescue as any one else who plays in our parks. Does a seacher ask if a person got hurt in a manner which he/she may not approve and then choose not to show up? Your argument doesn't hold water and if you have a problem with spelling you might as well not read any site! You have a right to your opinion so put your name down! Have a nice day!