Death Video in Theory

[Mr Blond]

Lets take jj out of the equation here and discuss the real issue at hand; if you feal there is anything more to add.

Personally I would never want my death to be on video (no matter how it happened), and if it were I would like that video destroyed immediately.

The only instance where I can think that viewing such video may be appropriate would be to investigate the cuase of death; if the cause were unknown. Once the cause has been determined the video should then be destroyed.

If you think you need to watch people impact and die to understand the consequences associated with this sport then you should reconsider your role in the sport.

More important, nobody has the "right" to collect or show such video unless the deceases had "publicly" stated that such video may be viewed by others. Period.

The idea of someone sitting around and watching me, or anyone else, die over and over again is disgusting.

I would have thought basic human decency would make these points obvious but I was proven wrong by many people who posted on the previous thread.

So if you don't mind having your potential base fatality viewed by others, here is a chance to publicly say so.

[Yuri]

Yo !

I would like a video of my potential base, skydiving or other fatality or a non-fatal accident and/or associated carnage shown publicly for a purpose of education, entertainment, out of morbid interest or just for the hell of it. If you happen to shoot such a video and consequently erase it, you will have made an enemy for life.... errr, for death. I will beat the hell out of you when we meet there.

>The idea of someone sitting around and watching me, or anyone else, die over and over again is disgusting.

Many believe the opposite. Then again, many believe a mere sight of somebody freefalling is disgusting. "Only fools and bird$hit fall from the sky", remember ? ;-)

As far as the "rights" go, they belong to the copyright holders. Please correct me if i am wrong, but private non-commertial view of any video would be considered "fair use".

That said, please do respect the families. When you watch such material, please keep it private.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[imported_Tom Aiello]

Funny, I was just trying to organize my thoughts on this, when I logged in and saw that someone else had already started this discussion. I'll get the rest of my thoughts in order, and post them.

A quick response: If you have a video of my last jump, by all means show it to whoever wants to see it (except Yuri--I think it'll be a funny last joke if nobody lets him see it).

My only exception is this: Don't tell my family that you are showing it, or even that the tape exists. And don't show the tape in such a way that they will ever find out (i.e. don't sell it to TV, or post it on the internet) about it. My mom certainly doesn't need to see the tape, and I'd prefer that she never know that other people are watching it.

So, that's my answer. Have fun with the tape, but don't let my family know about it, and don't let Yuri see it.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[JJ]

>Lets take jj out of the equation here and discuss the real
>issue at hand;

Thanks mr. anonymous poster. Why don't you want to say who you are?
Why are you so yellow?

>Personally I would never want my death to be on video (no
>matter how it happened), and if it were I would like that
>video destroyed immediately.

Why?

>If you think you need to watch people impact and die to
>understand the consequences associated with this sport then
>you should reconsider your role in the sport.

My tape was not only impacts - that seems to be the only part that made an impression on those who watched it - it had 180's and canopy impacts on it too. Is a 180 or any malfunction and how people pulled it off or dealt with it of value?

>More important, nobody has the "right" to collect or show
>such video unless the deceases had "publicly" stated that such
>video may be viewed by others. Period.

Where is this alleged "right" written? It's all about morals and ethics. I could be wrong, but I don't believe there is any "law" against showing carnage video, unless maybe it is broadcast on some public venue.

>I would have thought basic human decency would make these
>points obvious but I was proven wrong by many people who
>posted on the previous thread.

FYI, I have received emails from all over the world - mostly from foreigners living outside the U.S. - in support of my beliefs and my showing the carnage tape to both skydivers and BASE jumpers. Some of these people laugh at how stupid some Americans can be...especially their threats of lawsuits or legal action.

>So if you don't mind having your potential base fatality
>viewed by others, here is a chance to publicly say so.

I hearby authorize a video of my death should it happen on a BASE jump or a skydive to educate would be BASE jumpers (skydivers) and BASE jumpers.

James Jennings
February 27, 2003
jimjenningsmpa@hotmail.com

[imported_Tom Aiello]

OK, here are my (slightly) more organized thoughts:

There are three reasons to keep, and watch carnage videos (including, but not limited to, fatality videos).

1) Accident Analysis

Watching the video can give us important clues as to the nature of the accident. This use is not limited to the immediate accident investigation. It's also not limited to the primary investigators. Having a relatively large number of experienced jumpers viewing the tape, a relatively large number of times, makes it more likely that one of those people will see something that others have missed. This is particularly important in a case where the cause of the accident is poorly understood, or where better primary evidence is being withheld from public distribution.

2) Instruction

Instructional uses of these tapes include two sub-sets.

Instructors can show carnage videos to illustrate and underscore certain emergency procedures. Video of both well-handled and poorly handled situations can be useful in this regard.

Instructors, or mentors, or concerned older jumpers, can also show video as a "wake up call" to a young jumper who is proceeding recklessly. Often, the graphic nature of the footage can be quite helpful in this use.

3) Grief Management

BASE Jumpers have a very strange relationship with death. We are surrounded by the possibility of it, and eventually we all come face to face with it. This is enough to drive any rational person insane. We all have to develop our own strategies to cope with it.

The emergence of Black Death humor is one way that this manifests. Poking fun at the grim reaper, or making light of death, is an effective coping mechanism that is used by many people. For many of us, facing the sheer enormity of death is too daunting. One consequence of this is that non-jumpers are often taken aback by our lighthearted attitude towards death and injury.

Few, if any, non-jumpers can understand why there are several BASE web sites with x-rays of broken jumpers, or why the latest ABA t-shirt features an x-ray of the organization's president. In the same way, some jumpers have trouble understanding why others need to approach death in a lighthearted manner.

Treating this most serious of topics with the utmost seriousness may work for you. That does not mean it works for everyone. Some of us need to laugh at death, if only to maintain our own sanity.

Yes, there are boundaries to this behavior. And, yes, sometimes they are stepped over. But it ill behooves BASE jumpers (who are widely subject to such criticism from non-jumpers) to adopt holier-than-thou attitudes on such a topic. We are all guilty, in the eyes of the world. That some of us are more guilty than others is no surprise.

Carnage videos have been part of our unique culture for a long time. They will continue to be with us in the future. We cannot change that, and I doubt we would really want to if we could.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[Mr Blond]

I tire of making up new login accounts every time mick learns my identity. Not to worry jj, you will get your chance to call me "yellow" face to face in the near future. I look forward to it, I assure you.

This thread is not about 180's and its not about your tape; that is why I created a new thread, so we could stop talking about you. Please read the subject and the first line of the origonal post for clarification.

I'm sure you've received emails from all over the world - goody goody gum drops. There is a difference between principal and majority; Hitler had many followers too.

[Karin]

If something can be learned from a video of my death/carnage, have at it. I’d be OK with my footage being shown to friends, family or other jumpers for the purposes of education and investigation. No TV specials or “Faces of Death” videos please (echoing Tom’s desire to not have my family see it over and over again on some cheesy show).

I do agree that sensitivity is of the utmost importance when dealing with death or injury footage. Use common sense, discretion and honorable intentions when showing it to others.

Death is real and surrounds us at all times in many areas of our lives. Driving, jumping, whatever. I know that BASE jumping is dangerous and knew it from my very first SKYDIVES.

Brief tangent story: On my first or second AFF jump, I was sitting around winded out and happened to peek at a magazine that one of my AFF instructors was reading. It was called “The Fixed Object Journal”. I asked him what “BASE jumping” was, and he said that it was jumping from a “fixed” object (usually quite low) with (usually) a single-parachute system. I said, “Wow, that’s sounds dangerous and really not that smart.” He smiled and said, “Yeah…..” My instructor was Nick DiGiovanni. My cameraman was Gary Dawson, who died on a BASE jump in NZ that year.

[JJ]

>I tire of making up new login accounts every time mick learns
>my identity. Not to worry jj, you will get your chance to
>call me "yellow" face to face in the near future. I look
>forward to it, I assure you.

send me a personal email and we can arrange to meet.

>This thread is not about 180's and its not about your tape;
>that is why I created a new thread, so we could stop talking
>about you. Please read the subject and the first line of the
>origonal post for clarification.

I have much to add and this was one more chance to do it.

>I'm sure you've received emails from all over the world -
>goody goody gum drops.

And they are obviously not narrow minded like you.

>There is a difference between principal and majority; Hitler had many >followers too.

Yeah, good analogy...

JJ
:)

[d-dog]

>If you think you need to watch people impact and die to
>understand the consequences associated with this sport then
>you should reconsider your role in the sport.

Since you have chosen to refer to "me" in the above, can you please also explain to me "my role in the sport" so I can understand how it needs to change? Because, you see, I do (and did) need to continually be reminded - visually and otherwise - of the consequences of failure in this sport in order to be sure I'm still ready to take those risks. Those risks are more about those I care about than they are about me.

I don't know who you are, since you are an anoymous coward who likely isn't jumping anyway. For that reason, I can't comment on "your" involvement with OUR sport. If you choose to out yourself, then we can all judge whether you are someone who can legitimately comment on the relationship those of us who are actively jumping have to mortality and education.

On other fronts:

1. I strongly support Tom's comments regarding Black Death humor. For many of us, it is healthy for some strange reason. I also agree with Tom that there's boundaries that humor should not cross. That said, I've relied on humor to cope with the fatalities closest to me in this sport. One fatality, I have yet to find humor in and it is that loss that torments me day after day. When I find a way to chop that existential unknowable into something approachable to humor, then I'll know my healing has begun.

2. I am fine with folks using footage of me being badly injured or dying as they see fit. I encourage them to use it educationally, but if it gets used in other ways I just don't have a bother about it. Perhaps I'll have earned respect and folks will show respect in how that footage is used. If I've not earned respect, folks won't respect me. It's a bit late - at that point - for me to demand respect be given to me. Respect is earned, not given away.

3. If someone sells my carnage footage commercially, that's ok with me too. However, I ask that the proceeds from the sale be donated to a good charity (the Predator Project is my choice). Heck, sell the footage to anyone who will buy it and use the proceeds to make the world a better place. TeeVee is such a totally whacked thought control technology nowadays that I'd think it a form of subtle hack for my fat ass to sneak into The System in death.

4. My family and loved ones know about my jumping and the risks it carries. They saw me torn inside out last year emotionally by the loss of friends. If they don't want to see my footage, they won't watch it. If they do want to watch it, who the F U C K am I or anyone else to ask them not to? If you have the footage, share it with my family if they so desire.

5. Don't show my footage to Yuri, just for kicks ;-)

6. Death is a part of life. Losing loved ones hurts beyond words. Losing family must be on a level far worse than that. Even so, I do not feel that death must be obfuscated, hidden, talked around, or ignored. Humans are visual animals; much of our brain neuronal architecture is evolved to handle visual signals and signal processing (source: Francis Crick's The Astonishing Hypothesis); we should learn to accept death in order to integrate it into our emotional foundation as something understandable and inevitable. Hiding from it, and pretending it is some nasty thing that we should never see nor face firsthand, isn't the path to emotional health. I say this not as a criticism of others, but rather as my own beliefs.


I've sat and held a lover as death came. It hurt horribly, but I'd rather be there than not. I hope those who love me can see how I leave this existence, and I hope that my jumping (and how I choose to live my life overall) is enough of a celebration and embrace of this living world of ours that, when the end comes (no matter how it comes, violently or otherwise), people can smile through the tears.

We're all here but for a short while. We leave our mark (good or bad), and then we're gone. I don't really claim to know how those who believe in supernatural "other worlds" with omnipotent dieties that will cater to their every whim feel about death; isn't "death" if one really believes this stuff just a passage to a better world where the chosen get to reap all their rewards? If so, why are they often so horrified and stunned by death - don't their carefully-tended belief systems promise to paper over the harsh realities of death for them?

For the rest of us, we die and we're gone. Our living testament is in the families we leave behind and the ways we've affected the world. The physical evidence of our death, video or otherwise, is merely ephemera.

Peace,

D-d0g
ddog@wrinko.com
http://www.wrinko.com

[Tree]

Please show my carnage video for the amusement of others, except for Yuri who will probably be there but not have a camera.

x(

[JJ]

Mr. Blond - oh, sorry, I have just one more thing to add that might be of interest to some but probably not to you because for some reason you don't like me...and you're probably not liked by others since Mick has chosen to keep you from posting - gee, I wonder who you could be???

Anyway, when I was attending the funeral of one of the jumpers who died over the past year, meeting that jumpers family and staying with them for a few days so I could explain what happened so they could fully understand, and after telling them I had video taped the last moments of this jumpers life, interestingly enough two close family members requested that I give them a copy of thier loved one bouncing. I respectfully obliged because I believe one day when they have the reached a certain level of the healing process and developed the courage to view it, this footage will somehow further help them.

Just thought people might be intersted in learning this...

JJ
:-)

[imported_mknutson]

>As far as the "rights" go, they belong to the copyright
>holders. Please correct me if i am wrong, but private
>non-commertial view of any video would be considered "fair
>use".

Yuri, this is very true. When Michelle had her accident, it was on tape. There was a Rock Climber hanging out where we were jumping, and felt the urge to film. The worst happend.
Then, He sold that video all over the world without our permission. We looked into it, and he was the owner of the video. So, it seems he has the rights to that video.

Just like when you see any of the RealTv, *** Home Video shows etc... They where in the right place to film.

I am not advocating what this guy did, I feel incredibly stong against selling video to the media. I THINK THAT ANY ACCIDENT OR CARNAGE IN ANY WAY SHOULD NEVER GET TO THE MEDIA!

However, this is not what we are talking about with this video.

[imported_mknutson]

Look, the fortune of having a video or photo of any carnage has an inherant nobility. If, in death, I can even save 1 life, I feel that I would _TRUELY_ rest in peace knowing that someone else can benefit from an incident that happend.

If /(When) I die and you get it on film:
1. Try not to sell it to the media!
2. Show it to Yuri, and give him a copy.
3. Give JJ a copy.
4. Show it to as many people as possible with the explicit reason of education!

If we don't learn from others mistakes, then we are not going to progress, or survive in this case. When you don't learn, you continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.


Not only that, I just read JJ's post about 180's and other malfunctions.... I think that is an awsome video clip. Maybe you have an issue with the impact, or exessive gore, but rods, screws, stitches etc.. From a 180 cliff strike, poor landing skills, or from showing off.... This is exactly what is _NOT_ currently being seen by jumpers.

[d-dog]

>Not only that, I just read JJ's post about 180's and other
>malfunctions.... I think that is an awsome video clip. Maybe
>you have an issue with the impact, or exessive gore, but rods,
>screws, stitches etc.. From a 180 cliff strike, poor landing
>skills, or from showing off.... This is exactly what is _NOT_
>currently being seen by jumpers.

Actually, if jumpers are out having fun with me then they'll certainly see plenty examples of (my) poor landing skills and (my) showing off. Hey, I'm just trying to do my share in educating new jumpers in what NOT to do!
;-) :P

Peace,

D-d0g
ddog@wrinko.com
http://www.wrinko.com

[d-dog]

<dupe post again, sorry!>