Forward speed VS. controlabilty.

[Rigalo]

Could anybody give me some proper info on the following deeb brake settings (DB).

I jump a Cruiselite at the DZ and installed 3 levels of DB's. When I do the rear rizer stall/reverse thing, and release one riser to spun the canopy around, it works really nice if the brakes has been unstowed. But, on my deepest DB setting, DB3, the canopy opens very nice, ect. However, when I do the stall/reverse thing, the canopy is very un-responsive and tempramental. Even if I catch some wind from the back, it gets less responsive, and sometimes do it's own semi stall.

I do understand that DB3 might be a little on the edge. The question however is this, even if I chose to use a less aggresive setting: Is it more acceptable to have a less responsive canopy and as little as possible forward speed on opening, or should you find you own compromize, depending on the object and the environment, ie landing above sea level, temperature, etc. Also, do you regularly change the Deeb brake settings according to surcumstances, or do you jump a setting which you feel comfy with in all events?

I would realy appreciate a coment on the forward speed vs. controlability?

Cheers

[space]

Criuslite is IMHO not suitable for everyday BASE, If an object strike is possible, jump with another canopy more suitable. The reason why is the angle of attack is very steep, resulting in a high forward speed even with the brakes stowed. Also an issue with this canopy, the brake line set up from the manufacturer would prohibit you from reaching the DBS slider up safely as it would bring the line attachments of the tail through the slider grommets causing quite possible hang ups of the slider.
Hope this helps.
take care,
space

[Rigalo]

Thanks for the input. Seems as if you know the canopy well.

I defenitely won't jump it. I just use it at the DZ for my training.

My issue is that I was reading some DB posts on this site, and one dude mentioned that about 80% of the people don't customize their DB's on their base canopies. They simply just jump the 'recommended settings'. Now, if I would have tried to 'customize' my DB's on a proper base canopy, whould I set it so deep that the controllability of the canopy got sacrificed in order to lower forward speed, and or would I use different DB settings dependend on ASL and temperature?

Experience wise, would you rather go for the 'extra deep customized' setting, (say above recommended factory setting), or would you want to keep it controlable, with some amount of forward speed? Please, don't forget the altitude issue. If, for example, I jump at a DZ which is close to sea level, and then suddenly go on a trip with LZ at 6000+ ft. Would that 'max DB' setting acceptable?

R

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>Now, if I would have
>tried to 'customize' my DB's on a proper base
>canopy, whould I set it so deep that the
>controllability of the canopy got sacrificed in
>order to lower forward speed, and or would I use
>different DB settings dependend on ASL and
>temperature?

I'd recommend using different DBS depending on variable factors. Very few people have the patience to do this, but if you want, you can simply install a whole line of brake settings on your control line, and switch back and forth between them (this also lets you test deeper settings in actual BASE deployments).

I suspect that your problems with loss of control have to do with too deep a setting. Although I'm not terribly familiar with the canopy (so there might be some other issues there), I'd say that your deepest setting might be too deep.

If a setting is too deep, you can stall the entire canopy by giving rear riser input, thus making a bad situation (potential object strike) even worse. It is possible that in your case, you are providing overly aggressive riser input, and thus stalling the canopy. Try jumping the same brake settings, and lightening your touch on the riser. It's possible that you'll find you can have both the lower forward speed and good responsiveness, simply by adjusting your technique. If this is the case, be sure to practice your riser turns, so that in an emergency you don't yard on the riser too hard and stall the canopy. I have seen this sort of over-agressive riser input result in a serious accident (helicopter rescue) before.

>Experience wise, would you rather go for the
>'extra deep customized' setting, (say above
>recommended factory setting), or would you want
>to keep it controlable, with some amount of
>forward speed?

I'd recommend keeping it controllable until you are absolutely certain you won't stall your canopy with overly agressive input.

Also, be aware that using an overly deep brake setting with a slider can cause a deployment stall (since the slider grommets will shorten the lines farther). A very deep brake setting with a slider can also stall a canopy in the case of a line twist below the slider (which will keep the lines shortened until you clear the twist or impact). In general, very deep brake settings are best used only with slider down/off configurations because of the potential problems the slider can cause with "right at the edge" DBS.

>Please, don't forget the altitude
>issue. If, for example, I jump at a DZ which is
>close to sea level, and then suddenly go on a
>trip with LZ at 6000+ ft. Would that 'max DB'
>setting acceptable?

No. You ought to test your DBS at the new opening elevation. In the best case, you'll be able to do this off a span, or similar safe object. To simulate this, you can simply do a hop and pop from an aircraft at 14,000ft, and practice riser stalls at various elevations as you descend.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[Rigalo]

Tom

Thanks a lot for all your input. A lot has been said, and a lot of review and work could be done next weekend at the DZ.

One more question, before I am off.

If I do RR-stall with brakes unstowed, the canopy vurtually slides backwards into 'reverse', and when I release one riser, the canopy spun around beatifully and fast, and all forward from their.

Now, when I do this with DB-settings, stowed, I don't get this reverse action of the canopy, but a more 'flat-stall'.

On a proper base canopy, especially a vented one, with moderate DB's stowed, could I expect a smooth fast 'reverse-stall action' (such as doing it with unstowed brakes), or whould it be simmalar to my Cruiselite, which is a more flatter sink-stall and turn?

This info could help me understand what to expect, once I jump a proper canopy, and to get my mindset and expectations in line.

R

[divot]

"Get on the board and learn...it's a GREAT source!", they said after my first two jumps and the question of "Where can I read find/read/soak-up more information, real information?" (Besides the obvious thing of jump more....)

After a full month of flowery semantics on "heid" and anonyminities, thanks for this. This bit. Really.



Respectful Regards,

Divot

(Deej, I won't sing anymore. I promise....)

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>If I do RR-stall with brakes unstowed, the
>canopy virtually slides backwards into
>'reverse', and when I release one riser, the
>canopy spun around beatifully and fast, and all
>forward from there.

I suspect that your canopy is stalling harder, and beginning to deflate when you feel that "backward" slide. You are probably falling at a much greater rate while sliding "backward" than you are when stalling "flat"

>Now, when I do this with DB-settings, stowed, I
>don't get this reverse action of the canopy, but
>a more 'flat-stall'.

I'd guess that your "flat stall" is probably more of a straight down stall, that isn't losing nearly as much altitude as your "backward" stall.

>On a proper base canopy, especially a vented one, with moderate DB's stowed, could I expect a smooth fast 'reverse-stall action' (such as
doing it with unstowed brakes), or whould it be simmalar to my Cruiselite, which is a more flatter sink-stall and turn?


It's hard to say without actually seeing what is happening, but my guess is that a vented BASE canopy in deep brakes will produce a result more like the "flat" stall. I think that if you feel a "backward" slide on your stall, you are probably sinking down (and a bit backward) at a high rate of speed. Losing that much altitude that quickly on a BASE jump would put you in imminent danger of ground strike (impact under a stalled canopy). I'd try to aim for the "flatter" feeling stall, guessing that you lose less altitude that way.

Again, without actually seeing it, it's hard to really say what you are experiencing. You might try having a friend fly a canopy relative to you, and see if you appear to sink out on him more in either of the above situations. If you fall away significantly faster one way than the other, you should start thinking about how much available altitude you'll eat on a BASE jump using that setup and technique.


--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com