the future of the perrine

[crispy]

I think it's really great what bps and crew have been doing to insure the future of legal jumps in Twin BUT...

There is something else more important than hanging pictures and picking up trash--NOT FU(KING DYING! When someone goes in, the balance will be gone, and our legal status there WILL BE IN JEAPORDY.

As we were walking out on the bridge to jump this w/e, a few of us watched a completely black death low-time solo jumper ride in a line-over into the water, about 15 ft. from the bank. I'm all for pushing the envelope, but I don't see how jumping/packing without thinking is pushing any envelope. I see this as utter stupidity.

MY POINT: THE PERRINE IS SAFER THAN MANY OBJECTS, BUT LET'S RESPECT THE FACT THAT IT IS STILL A BASE JUMP! TAKE CARE IN WHO YOU TRAIN, HOW YOU TRAIN THEM, AND LOOK OUT FOR YOUR FELLOW BASE JUMPERS. I DON'T WANT TO BE CHASED OFF OF THAT BRIDGE BECAUSE SOME DUMB FU(K WAS TOO LAZY TO TAKE THE TIME TO DO IT RIGHT.

We can't afford Darwinism in BASE jumping.

CO chris

[base428]

As much as some jumpers may hate to hear, it's probably in our best interest to implement some form of rating system to jump at objects like the Perrine. Some of us at the CJAA (mainly Mick) have rough drafts of a rating system that would show who should (can) jump at the Perrine and who can take you there for your first jump. Let's face it, we've probably been luckly so far at the Perrine. If it wasn't for the Snake River below, there would be at least 4 or 5 deaths so far!

So many people have jumped from the Perrine, including those who've never been under a parachute before. We have no rules, no laws, no real organization. This type of system will eventually cause problems and shut us down. It wouldn't be that complicated to require a specific license to jump at the Perrine, say 10 previous BASE jumps. Otherwise, you must take a qualified instructor (say, minimum 150 BASE jumps) along with you until you reach the appropriate rating. Again, this rating system has already been established, but never implemented. As for enforcement, we would have to work with certain jumpers and perhaps even Bert/Don? No license, no boat ride out?

I would hate for the Perrine to get shut down and we would have to beg the good folks at Twin Falls to allow us to jump again using the new rating system. It would make TF feel more comfortable also if it were in place now. Thoughts? Flames?

Jason Bell
jbell@vertical-visions.com

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>Some of us at the CJAA (mainly
>Mick) have rough drafts of a rating system that
>would show who should (can) jump at the Perrine
>and who can take you there for your first jump.
>Let's face it, we've probably been luckly so far
>at the Perrine. If it wasn't for the Snake
>River below, there would be at least 4 or 5
>deaths so far!

How many of those "potential" fatalities would have been kept off the bridge by our current draft rating system?

I can think of the big three--myself, N, and our friend from the PNW, and all of the jumps would have happened exactly the same way with a rating system.

N had her accident with over 200 jumps (sorry for my original mistake), with at least one jumper in attendance who had nearly 1000 jumps. I had my accident on jump #293, again with a very experienced (600+) jumper in attendance. And I believe the injured jumper in the most recent accident is between 200 and 300 jumps now (I could be off on that--but I know he's over 100 for sure).

I'm not certain what the best solution is here. I've worked on the drafts as well, and as far as I can see they'll help keep whuffo fears in check, but are unlikely to prevent our really serious accidents, which have mostly appeared to come from moderately experienced jumpers pushing their personal limits.

Anyone else have any ideas on this subject?


--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[base428]

Regardless of the history of those who've hit the water hard, a jumper licensing system will do the following:
(1) Help keep the guy with 0 BASE jumps from trying it on his own.
(2) Allow us to provide guidelines and recommendations to new jumpers who may not know the rules of the Perrine.
(3) Make sure newbies learn the do's and don'ts of BASE and bridge jumping under qualified instructors (or experienced jumpers).
(4) Give TF the warm and fuzzies about our sport.
(5) Provides structure and organization for an otherwise "outlaw" sport.

I'm not going to spend too much time typing this out, as it's probably a lost cause with most jumpers. Remember the original post to this thread: "....black death low-time solo jumper ride in a line-over into the water....". Whatever happened to the brake line mod or the new Super toggles that would have prevented this? This was a low-timer, not an experienced jumper like the others.

[guest]

Dude, This is crazy!!! Is BASE jumping going to eventually follow in sport parachutings footsteps, where you have to "prove yourself" everywhere you go.

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>Remember the original post to this
>thread: "....black death low-time solo jumper
>ride in a line-over into the water....".
>Whatever happened to the brake line mod or the
>new Super toggles that would have prevented
>this? This was a low-timer, not an experienced
>jumper like the others.

As an aside:

I once saw exactly that same situation occur with a jumper who (reportedly) had nearly 100 jumps, was taught by one of the world's most experienced BASE instructors, and had the LRM.

Reportedly, he said he "just froze up" and rode his lineover into the water without pitching the toggle.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>(4) Give TF the warm and fuzzies about our
>sport.

I think this is the central issue.

Here's my question. Let's say that at some future time an irresponsible low puller from Northern California hits the water under the bridge with nothing out and parts company with his miserable life.

Would access to the bridge be positively or negatively impacted by having a rating system in place at the time of this hypothetical accident?

On the positive side:

1) The people of TF would be more likely to take us seriously if we had already implemented some regulation.

2) Having an organizational framework in place would give the local authorities someone to talk to about the incident and their response.

On the negative side:

1) The authorities would want to know why our rating system hadn't prevented the fatality.

2) We would be unable to use the "we'll impose self-regulation" chip in bargaining with them to maintain access.

I really have no idea if it would help or not. Does anyone have any experience with similar situations from other sports? I'd bet that USHGA faced this kind of dilemma early in it's life. Was anyone around for Yosemite, part 1? Do you think a self-regulation framework would have helped maintain access there (perhaps by preventing the flatbed incident)?


--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[guest]

Dude, Twin Falls is DIFFERENT! get it through your thick skulls that this is not some illegal object that we can afford to trash. We need to at least pretend we are good citizens to keep that place legal. I am not sure if some sort of rating system is needed, but we need to do something, maybe as simple as just SAYING SOMETHING when people start throwing no-timers off the bridge, jumping out of cars in the middle of the bridge, and drinking up at the visitor center in front of an ignorant public. Is it SO hard to follow a few simple guidelines for a weekend?
I laugh my ass off when I see people concerned that imposing a few object preserving guidelines on the Perrine may be a slippery slope that leads to an overall decline in our BASE rights. What do you people think is going to happen, IPBC or CJAA is gonna stake out every object in the country and jump out of the bushes asking for your BASE license? Bandit illegal BASE will always be there, but legal sites will not always be there if we don't do a LITTLE self regulation.

[crispy]

whoa!
rating system?
rules and regulations?
yecch!
My point is that we have to keep it in context--if you see someone in the park flailing on a pack job, maybe go give them a hand and show them what's up--if you see someone screwing up their launch and going head low every time, give them some suggestions on how to do it better--and be a SAFE BASE jumper. A rating system is not the answer...it will never work IMHO. Remember that it's not just their life the black death newbie will destroy if they go in, but YOUR site. So be picky about the people you train--leave the retards at the DZ--we really don't need them in this sport--contrary to seemingly popular belief, BASE is NOT for everyone--the more people that fu(k up, the more marginalized BASE will be, so don't call the BASEpolice, accept a little bit of responsibility to share what you know.

CO chris

[guest]

The concern is indeed appreciated. But would the self-annointed regulators (highly experienced jumpers) impose regulations which target the real problem: aerials and low-pulls done by themselves? No newbies floating into the water on buddy-assited rounds have ever caused a problem at the Perrine. (Let's face it, this sort of jump is so darn tame that nobody else would even bother coming to the bridge if that were the only sort of deployment/canopy allowed.) First-time jumpers have been going off that bridge with military rounds since 1994. The folks who've showed up in mass the past few years, doing the flips and five second delays, are the only ones who are gonna ruin the Perrine for those of us who've long since been enjoying it (and sharing it with others).

[guest]

Dude,

Self regulation is important. As long as it doesn't get to crazy and out of control.

I think that if the majority comes down hard on the minority that doesn't want to use common sense, things will probably improve.

I mean, if you see someone trashing the lawn at the visitors center or jumping irresponsibily , or otherwise making a fool of himself, punch him in the fu(king face and then give him an ethics/BASE lesson. Now that's self regulation.

[guest]

yeah, you are probably right, I don't imagine we are gonna see the bigwigs halt their antics, nor should we. However, if the worst should happen and one of them should die there, I don't think that will turn the community against us. They are probably expecting something of the sort to happen anyway.

What will screw us up, will be when one of those no prior jump experience newbies goes in because he or she never let's go of the PC, or for whatever reason... Then the Twin Falls headlines will scream, "Untrained Local Man dies trying to emulate BASE jumpers", and I guarantee that is what the headline will read, regardless of whatever one hour mini BASE course somebody gave the guy.

You and I know that the majority of the risk of death there does lie with aerials and low pulls. I think that at this object our focus should be on public perception versus BASE reality. The public will perceive us very negatively if it looks like we threw one of the local boys off the bridge without any training, etc. If a bigwig goes in, they will just shake their heads and say, "Durn fool had it coming!"

I guess there are a couple of "real problems";
a) the real risk that the bigwigs are putting themselves at (but after all, that is THEIR problem, so it really doesn't affect the rest of us)
and
b) the public perception problem that will result from our abusing the object.

I don't think we can or should do anything about a), but we need to seriously consider the ramifications of b)


But really, nobody is gonna do anything until it get's taken away, so who cares?

[guest]

you are right, unfortunately I am a little guy and will easily get my ass kicked so I will need some backup for the face punching.

[crwper]

Right, so who's going to say what constitutes "responsible" use of the area? You? Me? A whuffo? An Australian? Everyone has a slightly different idea of what "responsible" is, and I think a big part of what makes this such a beautiful sport is our freedom to live within our _own_ bounds of what is responsible or not -- even at our beloved legal span.

Michael

[guest]

I agree wholeheartedly with "wtf" here on SELF regulation and common sense.

In fact I have, on several occasions over the past few years at the Perrine, been the beneficiary of constructive advice from more experienced jumpers (the Portland boys, the Aussies, Jimmy from Vertigo, Mark H etc.) as they have surveyed my brand of fun in Twin. I don't mind saying that I do a number of things somewhat differently nowadays, and everyone is better off due to this sort of positive interaction. Thus we have all the "regulation" we need on top a big bridge in a state which honors the rights of citizens to enjoy their lives in a FREE country. It'll take nothing short of a law passed by the Idaho legislature (whom I have personally lobbied to keep the bridge open for jumping) in order to send me away from the Perrine! Also, if an experienced jumper does get the bridge shut down as a consequence of a low pull or an aerial, I myself would not begrudge them one bit. Those fellows are just trying to enjoy their miserable lot here on this awful planet, just as I am. Live and let live folks!