What went wrong

[Tree]

Well, I hit a cliff, again, and yes it was the same one I hit before. I would like to share with anyone who is interested what happend. I had a clean exit and freefall, and a simple 90 right. I say simple because it should have been routine to correct. I gave a little left rear riser input and the canopy immediately stalled. I was a little more than surprised but let up on the riser expecting to go back into flight and away from the cliff. The canopy more or less remained stalled and was crabbing towards the talus which on this cliff comes out further on the left and right than it does the middle. Here is were I made the critical error in the midst of extreme conditions. I went for the riser again, stalled again, and BAM, nailed the cliff. Had I gone stright for toggles this would have been avoided. At least I was able to fly the canopy backward all the way to the river, bouncing off on the way down because the glide of the canopy backwards could not outrun the talus. At any rate, I plan on making lots of A or s slider down jumps and praticing going stright for the toggles until it is second nature. In anything but a 180 they seem to be a better route.

I hope this helps someone else avoid the same error. None of us wants to have an accident, but I guess that's why they are called accidents.

Tree
610

Thanks to all invloved who displayed the care and consideration that defines the true brotherhood (and sisterhood) of base jupers.

[guest]

take up bowling. You obvioulsy don't have a clue about BASE jumping.

Sag local

[Yuri]

Yo !

Local, you'd be surprised how many new jumpers got in trouble giving too much riser input and stalling canopies. Most people learning to base jump still hear the old "go for your risers" prayer. It does not always work well with modern base canopies. Going for toggles used to be a taboo, but it is the only way to save yourself in some situations. Mark's post highlights a very important point, while yours serves nothing. Nobody has enjoyed this cliff strike (i hope), but many can learn from it. If you want to talk, please sign your name - anonymous barking will backfire against you. Remember, Mick knows who all of us are! ;-)

bsbd!

Yuri.

[guest]

Yuri brings up a point I have heard before. Why stall into trouble as opposed to flying out of it. So here's my question--Which toggle do you go for? The one needed to turn away from the cliff with, or the one that would turn you into it? The reason I ask is that if you had a 90 right, wouldn't you want to release the right toggle, so you would create a very sharp left turn? Just wondering.

[guest]

I know I'm new but I like to read and learn or learn and live. So, I have a question..Would this have anything to do with too much of a brake setting? I'm just wondering because i have seen videos of deep brake settings and it seems that some people are opening very close to stall point as it is. Just a comment I guess.

[guest]

Hey Tree,
I haven't been on the board for some time. It is good to hear that you are jumping again. How bad was this one? Are you o.k?
Take it easy dude.
Todd

[Mike]

Were you jumping in a cross wind? Perhaps in the direction of your opening?

Here's a common scenario (which may or may not help to explain what happened to you): You jump into a crosswind blowing from left to right. You have a 90 right off-heading opening. You immediately slam your left rear riser, and... you stall instantly.

Why?

Because the 90 right put the tail of your canopy into the wind, and your canopy couldn't pressurize as fast as it usually does. Rear risers will DE-pressurize your canopy even further, and usually cause a stall. Especially if you are in deep brakes to begin with.

Your situation sounds like a classic example of over-reaction. On an off-heading opening, you should always give your canopy time to pressurize IF YOU CAN. A 90 right on a cliff will usually afford you enough time to let it fly a little and then initiate a toggle turn. A 180 on the other hand is usually best dealt with by slamming risers. It all depends on your gear and your environment.

[guest]

I like the explanation, but do not agree fully.

When I jump in crosswinds, its very common for me to get an off heading opening. Usually into the wind. If the wind blows from the left, my canopy opens to the left.

However, if your canopy opens to the right, according to my experience, it will not cause your canopy to stall earlyer. Your forward speed is always the same but relative with the winds. I dont think the wind has a big impact on the stall point, but on the distanse you cover before you are finished with your turn.

According to my experience it is not possible/very hard to raiserturn a unpressuraised canopy. I have very little experiense with toggle turning a unpressurised canopy. However I had a canopy with very deep brakes, and in a coupple of cases it did not pressurise properly before I released the brakes. (I could not turn unless using toggles)

I think Tree had a pressuration problem. These factors inflict on a quick pressureitation

A canopy pressurises quicker facing the wind, then downwind.

Too deep brakes.

A old canopy.(Or a canopy not made suiting base) base)

I do not belive that I know all about this field, and my limited knowladge I have, is from talking espesially with Yuri and other basejumpers, 250 basejumps and 5 years in the sport.

Cya

Arne

[Micke N]

My experience is quite different. For me a fast correction on the risers seems to work best. I've found that if I can manage to start the turn BEFORE the canopy starts flying (pressurised or not) it's very very easy to turn on the spot, specially on slider down openings.

Why this works fine for some jumpers but not for all seems to be very individual, probably it's an equation of many variables (canopy, susp.weight, sqft...).

/Micke

[guest]

Arne wrote (assuming a left to right crosswind):
>if your canopy opens to the right,..., it will not cause your canopy to stall earlyer.

Yes it will. The center of inertia is the jumper's body and it is not shifted with the wind during freefall (or very little for most base jumps). So after the opening, the canopy has a near zero horizontal speed (relative to the earth) regardless of the wind, and then the wind blows into the canopy tail. Mike comment is right.

Anyway this is only theory, a cross wind is never laminar near a cliff, there are always more or less rotors. A very low or zero wind is the only way to avoid unpredictable behaviour.

[guest]

It seems to me that one's reaction would be situational. In this case, no one knows the true airflow near the cliff at opening. Additionally, this was not the only factor involved. With this in mind there can really be no absolute answer or correct choice of action. Personally, I go for the toggles ASAP, no time - risers. That's how I was taught and when analyzed, it makes sense. But, that's me.

Hope you're OK dude.

Rich

[guest]

Gotta agree with MIke and CPB. Canopies and aircraft should follow the same laws. It's readily noticeable in small aircraft that when abruptly turning downwind(especially when winds aloft are 30-40 knots or greater, which is relative), a stall type pattern is noted with loss of airspeed, not ground speed and loss of altitude, and attitude. LIft is directly proportional to relative wind.
A wing is a wing is a wing.
386

[Tree]

Thank you everyone for your input (except Sag local.) It is all good food for thought. I lived, now I'll learn more.

Dear sag local, I'll learn to be a better base jumper, and you'll still be a coward and a dick.

Tree

[guest]

Hey Tree,

Not only did your tale spark some good info from others, SAG Local elicited from you a comment reminiscient (oops, sorry about the big word) of one of Winston Churchill's fabled exchanges with the Lady Astor.

At a party one night she said:
"Sir, you are drunk."

To which he replied:
"And you m'Lady, are ugly, and the difference between us is that in the morning I shall be sober and you shall still be ugly."