Still learning and asking stupid questions ........ maybe?

[guest]

In regards to kit - I have various questions - mainly as the info I have
downloaded is not that informative - it has just made me aware of the
things
to think of. Some of these may sound bloody stupid - but hey I am still
learning:-

2) Pin v Velcro - My assumption from my reading is that Velcro is
advisable for newbies and for short delay/low altitude jumps - Is this a
correct assumption? And what are the main advantages/disadv for and
against
both these closures?
3) Stowed v Handheld PC - again assumptions from reading - handheld
for low alt / short delay and for newbies - obviously hand held gets
dangerous the longer the delay you have - horseshoe mal at low altitude -
Nah not for me thanks.
4) Slider up / down / removed - what sort of delays require each. I
realise removed for short delays but what delays should you start thinking
of the others.


Maybe these questions are obvious but I wish to be sure and unafraid
to ask the obvious. - Knowledge dispels fear.

Any way back to work.

Later

M

[imported_mknutson]

THIS REPLY DIRECTED TO ALL NEW JUMPERS.....

The questions you are asking are the reason myself and many other experienced jumpers say "THIS IS NOT SKYDIVING. SKYDIVE FIRST (HEAPS)".

You are also asking questions that are NOT an easy answer. This is why when someone tells you it takes years to learn to BASE-jump we are NOT bull shitting you!

You asked about stowed vs hand-held PC. There are some 350' jumps I would go stowed on. But there are also some 600' jumps I would only go hand held.

Pin vs. Velcro....I have 3 velcro rigs and 1 pin rig. There are some 300' jumps I would always use my pin rig on, but there are some 1,000' jumps I would only use my velcro rig on.

You need to beat the trail and go learn about objects before you ever actually JUMP! There is so much to learn. You never stop learning in BASE-jumping, but you do get a foundation of knowledge before you go into this.

The person that says "I am a skydiving champ (God) and have 1,000 jumps", I don't really think much in the way of BASE-Jumping ability. They can't tell me what it is like to have to react to a 180 looking at a 400' cliff. They can't tell me about dynamic winds around different types of objects. They can't tell me why I pack each step of a BASE pack job the way I do, and understand it.

75% of what you ned to know about BASE jumping is research and DZ testing! THe other 25% is easy if you REALLY did the research and testing at the DZ. You may have to hang out with the accuracy crowd for a while, or even be by yourself doing hop and pops on a Raven III, but you need to ask yourself "How comitted am I?". This is why NEW Jumpers get so much ##### from experienced jumpers. We have been researching, testing and experamenting for years, and some skydiver says "I have heaps of skydives" and expects someone to drop everything.

There are plenty of people at a dropzone that can teach you very advanced canopy skills. CRW, Accuracy and Demo jumpers. You can learn most of the canopy skills you will ever need in BASE. This, in my opinion is boring, but go hang out with a reserve rigger for a month. They can teach you everything about a canopy you need to know. They can teach you tricks that you will NEVER learn just skydiving. They can show you deployment sequence at a fine detail. They can tell you about different types of sliders and material characteristics. What new jumpers have to do, is stop freeflying EVERY single jump and go hang out with those other people. If you think you are too cool to hang out with them, then......

This forum is about BASE-Jumping. There are hundreds of postings about the same thing I have just said. SKYDIVE! Don't just freefly or sky-surf or swoop your 103'. Go jump CRW, Demos, Accuracy, Cross-Countries under a Raven IV+. Go learn rigging, weather, climbing, first-aid, wilderness survival, etc...

These are things that this site WILL have in it when I have time, but you don't need me to give you a web page to tell you what you already have access to every weekend.

INSTRUCTORS:
This is something you should understand as well. If your students don't have the research done that I stated above, then you are asking to get them hurt or worse. When a student goes off a jump, I don't care how cool they are under a PD-97, or how much money they make, or if they are really fun to hang out with. When the ##### hits the fan, they will NOT be prepared to handle themselves. LUCK will only take them so far.
Just because they have 20 jumps and you put them off a 300' wall and nothing happend, doesn't mean they are a good base-jumper because they have jumped some advanced stuff. It means you don't have a clue what responsibility you have and how close you are coming to killing your student.

The students need an instructor to tell them when they are ready for a specific object. How the hell would a student know what is at their experience or above? They don't know 100%. A student does not what a 180 looks like off a building. SO why take them to a building? Most students can handle a 180 off a bridge or even a tall antenna. So why would you want them to go jump an advance cliff site? Think about it!

:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7 :7:7:7:7

** If I have forgotten anything.....Let me know....

** If I have said something someone doesn't like, BRING ON THE FLAMES!



--
Thanks

Mick Knutson
BLiNC Magazine

"Everything you ever wanted to know about BASE Jumping, but didn't know who to ask."
--

[guest]

I totally agree with Mick that you can find most of your answers (at least in general) at the DZ. However, here's my best shot at helping you out. Remember, I am not an expert, so take a critical look at everything yourself, and think things through.

>2) Pin v Velcro - My
>assumption from my reading is
>that Velcro is
>advisable for newbies and for short
>delay/low altitude jumps - Is
>this a
>correct assumption?

Mostly. Velcro is ideal for less experienced jumpers. The reason is that it gives you a far simpler, easier to use system. There are several things that can go wrong with a pin rig (improper pin tension due to lumpy pack job or loop length, improper bridle routing, etc) that are just not possible with a velcro rig.

I would definitely advise a velcro rig for your first rig. My preference would be to order one from a major manufacturer (to get all the documentation), and keep the fit loose so that closing is easier in the early stages of your career (when you are still learning to pack).

Check out the Reactor 4 (http://www.basicresearch.com), the Perigee II (http://www.crmojo.com) and the Wizard (http://www.vertigobase.com).

You are incorrect in assuming that Velcro is innapropriate for long delays. Velcro works just fine for terminal deployments (tons of people in Norway using it). the only place I'd be careful with it is on wingsuit flight. Also, be sure to replace your velcro if it starts to wear, especially if you are doing lots of terminal jumps.

>And what are the
>main advantages/disadv for and
>against
>both these closures?

The main disadvantage of the Pin rigs is that there are more complexities to face. You REALLY don't want to deal with even more things when you are doing your first jumps/pack jobs. Also note that most of the manufacturers do not recommend the pin rigs for short delay (slider down) objects. Also, when starting, you will probably be hand held a fair bit, and pin rigs usually don't like that (bridle flap can easily pull a pin, but has more trouble getting the shrivel flap peeled). More and more jumpers are going to pins at all altitudes (I'm one of them), but don't let that fool you. When starting out, stick to velcro.

The main disadvantages of velcro rigs all occur when the velcro is getting worn. Poorly seated velcro can separate prematurely, causing a very dangerous situation. This is especially true on high speed aerial jumps (like backtracking at terminal, or wingsuits), or jumps where you have to crawl and climb to the exit with your rig on. The lesson here is to replace the velcro every 50 jumps, and check that it is still seating firmly at each packing.

>3) Stowed v Handheld PC -
>again assumptions from reading -
> handheld
>for low alt / short delay
>and for newbies - obviously
>hand held gets
>dangerous the longer the delay you
>have - horseshoe mal at
>low altitude -
>Nah not for me thanks.

This is mostly true. I wouldn't recommend going hand held for any delay over two seconds. I also wouldn't recommend using a pin rig on a hand held jump.

I'd say that you shouldn't go stowed under 400'. Stowing the PC can cause strange hesitations and such when you pitch, so you really need to treat stowing with care. Make sure you have the extra room to deal with problems.

>4) Slider up / down /
>removed - what sort of
>delays require each. I
>realise removed for short delays but
>what delays should you start
>thinking
>of the others.

Check out http://www.basicresearch.com/, scroll down to the bottom, under the "BASE Equipment" header, and click on "DELAY-ALTITUDE-EQUIPMENT CHART". This excellent chart ought to answer most of your questions on this topic. If you have more specific questions, feel free to post them here, or email me, and I'll try to help out.

>Maybe these questions are obvious but
>I wish to be sure
>and unafraid
>to ask the obvious. - Knowledge
>dispels fear.

The only stupid question is the one you don't ask. Knowledge doesn't just dispel fear--it reduces the chance of injury or death. Try to ignore the folks flaming you for honest questions, and do feel free to ask if you have more.

Have fun,

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[imported_mknutson]

I am NOT flaming anyone for asking GOOD questions. I just want everyone to understand, that you will not learn to BASE-jump after a week of reading the base board!

It takes months and years of dedication. Anyone who tells you otherwise is very wrong!

It is not impossible though. It is not even extra hard to do it. It just takes dedication. This is what many people in society have lost. The fast food generation want to pull through a drive in web site and be delivered a BASE-Jump. You DO need to get into the kitchen or you will get some pretty unpredictable food! If you are lucky, you add an inch or two. If you are unlucky, you catch MAD-Cow disease and move on to another life!

If you cook it yourself, you know what you are getting!!!!!!!!!
--
Thanks

Mick Knutson
BLiNC Magazine

"Everything you ever wanted to know about BASE Jumping, but didn't know who to ask."
--

[guest]

I apologize Mick.

I had not meant to imply that you were flaming him. Just that he was likely to be flamed when he posted questions on the board, and that he shouldn't get discouraged by it.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[guest]

You may get a lot of the "fast food generation" wanting to BASE after reading 10 pages of text - but I assure you I realise the time and effort needed to take this sport up - I am willing to put the hard work in. - so why assume I am not just by mis-interperating what I want. I do not think I will make a jump for at least a year - but wish to start learning now - which means reading, asking stupid questions, changing my 9-cell for a BASE canopy and jumping it loads - I know there is alot to do yet - I am VERY sure I want to take this up - and I am very much aware of the hard work and dedication - I now realise it will be much harder as some people do not wish to help the students......... Remember you were all here at sometime or another ....... don't judge people until you know 100% their true intentions.

Thanks to everyone who is helping me -

M

[guest]

There is no instuctor "collective" for BASE in the UK(as far as i am aware)....the majority of BASE is done outside this green and pleasant land.Why not go to learn where all the experience is?Like I said in your other post,do as you are,it will come eventually.

The reason you may feel like you are getting a kind of cold shoulder treatment is,the real experienced guys/gals (and i aint one of them) see so many Pepsi Max wannabe types with 50 jumps on a manta who think that BASE is for them.They are just making sure you are the real deal.

Its obvious from your post you are the patient type,keep plodding on,do two or three hundred jumps on a big 7 cell,keep reading,go watch your reserve being packed,contact some locals,go do some groundcrew and then go do a course!!!

Look at the cons as well as the pros though,when it goes pete tong it does it large stylie.Object strikes,arrest,possible death....have you considered making a will??A lot of BASE jumpers I know have!!

Any way take it easy....drop me a line if you want to go do some groundcrew in your year long beat up period!!


BSBD

Sean

[guest]

I have to admit I have had more help than hinderance here - so at least not everyone thinks I am some kind of Pepsi Max wanker. I thought that was obvious - but hey c'est le vie

Thanks to all that are helping!!!

Later People

M