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Thread: Slider up line over modification

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  1. #1
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    Slider up line over modification

    I have what I feel is a pretty good idea for a slider-up "line modification" for clearing slider up line-overs. I have jumped the system skydiving and the control lines cleared immediately (I didn't pack an intentional line-over; I just released the control lines to see how they would clear). It is moderately easy to install on most toggle systems, and can be done at minimal cost. I have included a JPG illustration of the system, so it may be easiest to print the JPG then read the description of its construction and use.

    The system functions by releasing the toggle from the control line, allowing the line to feed back through both the keeper ring and the slider. The end result is that the control lines will be cleared (similar to a slider down line mod after releasing the toggles) with the exception of the fact that the toggles will still be in your hands, not connected to the parachute in any way. Fundamentally the system works by retaining the control line to the toggle with a straight closing pin. The finger-trapped control line (terminal end) is run straight through the toggle grommet and is held in place by a straight pin on the other side. By removing this pin, the line will be freed from the toggle, allowing it to clear.

    I have included a diagram of the system in this posting, so I will describe it to try and clarify. The straight pin is stitched to a piece of ribbon tape (I used pull-up cords for all of my test versions). In the diagram, this piece of ribbon tape is purple. This pin-bridle system is unattached to the toggle in the diagram, which will be discussed in further detail later. By pulling on the bridle, the pin is pulled, thus releasing the control line, which then clears back through the retainer ring and slider.

    This bridle could be attached, using Velcro, directly to the toggle, but I didn't like this configuration as it could very easily lead to premature release. For this reason I decided to run the bridle through a channel (I used a wider piece of ribbon tape stitched to the toggle along the sides, but left open at the top and the bottom). I also put a small piece of retainer ribbon on the "tongue" of the toggle to retain the tip of the straight pin. In the diagram, both the channel and the pin-retainer are red.

    I then inserted the pin-bridle into this channel (i.e. fed the pin up through the channel so it would be in place to hold the control line), doubled back the bridle (from the bridle-pin component) on top of the channel, and attached it with Velcro to the channel. This configuration can be seen in the top-right most diagram of the assembled system.

    So, by pulling on the bridle (the terminal end of which is near the toggle grommet), I release the Velcro, slide the bridle/pin downwards through the channel, thereby releasing the line from the pin (and toggle), and the toggle from the parachute.

    One significant difference between the diagram and my trial versions is that I attached the bridle/pin to the toggle in my versions (in the diagram the bridle/pin are shown unconnected for simplicity). The reason for this is that the system can be released from a brakes stowed position (releasing the line from the toggle does no good if the brakes are still stowed, retaining the line…). I did this in two different ways, both of which functioned very well:
    1) By attaching a piece of ribbon tape between the bottom-most point of the toggle and the bottom of the bridle (i.e. where the bridle U-turns). This piece of bridle must be longer than the pin to ensure that the pin will fully release the line prior to tension, or the system will not release.
    2) By folding the bridle that runs inside the channel in half, and narrowing the channel in the middle (in essence, creating a bottleneck that the bridle would slide regularly through, but the pin eye could not fit through). I just put some stitches in from the edge about half way down the channel. I like this configuration better than the first because it eliminated an extra piece of exposed bridle, and thus had a lower chance of unwanted release.

    One problem that I haven't worked out is a good solution of what to do with the terminal end of the bridle/pin. The need is for a secure attachment, which will not prematurely release, but that is easy and fast to release in all conditions. I have built the toggle with both a ring on the end and by doubling/tripling the bridle back onto itself creating a small handle to pull. I think that snapping it in place would ensure that the system does not release prematurely (I haven't tested anything with a snap, nor have I had problems with premature release). Note that the pull force of the release system must be less than that of the toggle-line system or you will only be steering your parachute by your release system.

    Another problem deals with the question of stowing the toggle. The system as pictured could have potential stowage hang-ups due to the fact that the pin and its sheath are on the tongue of the toggle, which stows into the control line. This is a problem that must be worked out for each different toggle type, as each stows differently. Perhaps the easiest toggle to implement the system on is one that (I am not sure who makes it) has a normal toggle, like those pictured, with a pin that runs parallel to the tongue onto which the line actually stows. This then leaves the tongue free and eliminates the potential problem with hang-ups.

    If anyone has any recommendations, potential problems, opinions, questions, or anything of the sort, feel free to e-mail them to me or post them on the board.

    Nick Jameson
    Nflynnj@hotmail.com

    http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/u...nj/toggles.jpg


  2. #2
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    RE: Slider up line over modification

    this idea has been done and introduced 7 years ago. it is a good idea if applied correctly. however if not applied correctly it can lead to problems. i started making these toggles for a select group of jumpers to see how it would go. when one jumper came into my shop and said my toggles were a bad idea and they almost killed him by premature releasing, i asked who set him up with a pair and who set them up on his gear. he stated his facts to me and showed me his gear. they were set up third party and a few very important parts were set up wrong. to make a long story short it is another working part and it is not very idiot proof, not to mention a lot of responsibility. i decided to shelf the idea until???? other than myself and a very few select jumpers who knew and understood them have been using them. remember if they can be rigged wrong even in the smallest way, they will be sooner or later. be careful of who gets there hands on them, a good idea can make you the bad guy when someone bounces on them because they did not apply them correctly.

    good luck, dennis

  3. #3
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    RE: Slider up line over modification

    I agree with all that you have said and I think that you are correct in that, by helping to solve one problem, it adds another variable to the equation. Hopefully it, or some other system, can be safely implemented in the future. In your reply, you mention that you have been jumping toggles similar to these. Have you had any problems? Do you have any recommendations for setting up the toggle? Thanks for the insight!

    Nick Jameson
    Nflynnj@hotmail.com


  4. #4
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    RE: Slider up line over modification

    I guess I'm wondering just how many line overs people are getting packed slider up? I can't recall in the last 3 years of hearing about any slider up line overs, or line overs with the tail gate. Anyone seen this happen?


    The idea for the toggles is interesting, but two words come to mind. HOOK KNIFE! Very simple system for clearing unwanted lines from yourself or your gear.

  5. #5
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    RE: Slider up line over modification

    I saw one slider up line over in Norway last July. The person who had it was unable to clear the line over (stalling the canopy, pumping the toggles, etc.), but was able to steer the canopy over the water and land there with only wet gear and bruised confidence in packing. As a side note, he (to the best of my knowledge) was not jumping with a hook knife :). Space was running the boat, so he may have more info about the jump. Happy jumping!

    Nick Jameson
    nflynnj@hotmail.com

  6. #6
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    RE: Slider up line over modification

    Hi Nick:

    What if you truncate the toggle stub (i.e. cut most of it off), then use a burly steel pin instead. If the pin is used as both the toggle stub and the toggle release pin, then a control line can be released even with the brakes set.

    I think this setup (pin as toggle stub) also has advantages as a brake setup, as it will be less prone to hang up.

    What do you think?

    --Tom Aiello
    tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

  7. #7
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    RE: Slider up line over modification

    Tom,
    Though I can't visualize a clean way to make it work, I really like your idea. One facet that I didn't like about my version (though it didn't create a problem in actual test jumps) is that the line is released from the toggle before the toggle is released from the brake stow. This "second release" is not shown in the diagram, but is described in the text description (if you want clarification of this part of the system, e-mail me and I can give you a more in depth description). The setup that I have tested released the line from the toggle THEN, by continuing to pull the release, the toggle from the stow. This would have a slight chance of tension knotting at the retainer ring (because the slack is all released at one time). Changing the retainer pin to the toggle stowage point would stage this release in reverse order, nearly eliminating the possibility of the tension knot.

    The major disadvantage that I see with this system is that it would be a new/different toggle, and people might be less inclined to use it (over modifying their existing toggles). Right now I am having a problem visualizing a clean way the system could be designed, but I will think about that. Let me know if you have a functional design in mind, and thanks for the thought. Any information will help!

    Nick Jameson
    nflynnj@hotmail.com

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