Paraglider Jump

[pBASEtobe]

Ok, here goes...I want to do some more d-bag jumps from my friends tandem paraglider (video) but wanted to get opinions on a few things. Due to road closures we are only able to launch from a lower launch site easily. This means I'd be releasing from the tandem somewhere between 250'-300' AGL. Maybe as low as 200' not sure quite yet, we'll have to fly it on a test run and see. I was planning on trying a few jumps at lower altitudes for fun anyway, previously I had done them slider up, no pilot chute from 900' and 1100'. I have had my paragliding harness strengthened substantially to withstand opening forces of a no-slider jump and I would obviously use a tailgate. The big question I have is if I should use a pilot chute or not? Also, how about using breakcord between the bridle attachment point and the d-bag? Does the pilot chute help deployment in anyway after the canopy has been extracted from the bag?
I have all of 9 BASE jumps and two jumps from the paraglider. I used and will be using again a Fox 225 Vtech with covers.

Thanks for the advice!

[pBASEtobe]

Anybody...maybe I'll post this up on DZ.com as well.

[Mac]

hey dude! - there is a UK guy who does a bit of paraglider BASE, email me and I can put you in contact.

HTH

Michael

[Tom Aiello]

The big question I have is if I should use a pilot chute or not?

It doesn't matter. The pilot chute's job is to extract the canopy. By the time a PC in the bag gets out, the canopy will already be extracted. The only possible effect of a PC would be to somehow entangle the bag setup. But that's not really much of a concern. I'd probably leave it off.

Also, how about using breakcord between the bridle attachment point and the d-bag?

Shouldn't matter very much. Opinions vary on this. Some experienced jumpers believe that holding the attachment point up as long as possible will yield the fastest possible inflation. I tend to the other school of thought, which is that having the canopy leave the bag as symmetrically as possible will yield less altitude loss to full flight. Plus, since the canopy staying in the bag is death, it just makes me nervous (baselessly, if I think about it rationally) to attach it.

If you are exiting from 200', be aware that you will have _very_ limited time under canopy. You may be able to make a turn (to correct off heading) but I'd definitely recommend doing so on the toggles, rather than the risers, to minimize altitude loss (and because in this scenario there ought to be no potential for object strike).

[pBASEtobe]

The only possible effect of a PC would be to somehow entangle the bag setup.

That's what I thought. I was concerned about what I'd do with the PC if people came back with the suggestion of using it. Leaving it off will definielty reduce the risk of some type of entanglement.

Side note: Why have I seen video of a guy attaching breakcord to a bridge for a SL jump and dangle his PC over the edge? Why not just take it off if it is really only for extraction?

...there ought to be no potential for object strike.

There is only a very tiny possibility of hitting anything, a small building/shack that stores local pilots hanggliders. Other than that nothing but a huge open area so even if I had an off-heading I wouldn't need to make a turn to land.

[mknutson]

I was trying a paraglide jump in CH last year, and saw a few issues with lower jumps. You have a very high probability of going unstable on exit. So, the lower jumps could be really nasty as far as openings.

But, what I did was go on a test ride with a laser range finder and get several readings. Then we found the perfect area, and it was almost 1,000' as well. Although we were at 7,500 ASL so this was not as good as 300' ASL.
I also did extensive gear education with the pilot. He needed to know about my gear and things to look for as he was doing a gear check for me.
Hope that helps some.

Ok, here goes...I want to do some more d-bag jumps from my friends tandem paraglider (video) but wanted to get opinions on a few things. Due to road closures we are only able to launch from a lower launch site easily. This means I'd be releasing from the tandem somewhere between 250'-300' AGL. Maybe as low as 200' not sure quite yet, we'll have to fly it on a test run and see. I was planning on trying a few jumps at lower altitudes for fun anyway, previously I had done them slider up, no pilot chute from 900' and 1100'. I have had my paragliding harness strengthened substantially to withstand opening forces of a no-slider jump and I would obviously use a tailgate. The big question I have is if I should use a pilot chute or not? Also, how about using breakcord between the bridle attachment point and the d-bag? Does the pilot chute help deployment in anyway after the canopy has been extracted from the bag?
I have all of 9 BASE jumps and two jumps from the paraglider. I used and will be using again a Fox 225 Vtech with covers.

Thanks for the advice!

[mknutson]

NO! Please. This is a base question, not a skydiving question. This is actually not even related to skydiving at all.

[pBASEtobe]

You may be able to make a turn...but I'd definitely recommend doing so on the toggles, rather than the risers, to minimize altitude loss...

I thought a rear riser turn would turn slower with less altitude loss and a toggle turn would turn faster but with more loss of altitude.

[jalisco]

Side note: Why have I seen video of a guy attaching breakcord to a bridge for a SL jump and dangle his PC over the edge? Why not just take it off if it is really only for extraction?

The d-bag is (hopefully) firmly attached to the object, so you can be reasonably confident that it's not going to be following you, and thus, that your canopy, which will be following you, will necessarily be extracted.

The bridle is, by definition, not firmly attached (the breakcord is supposed to break), and everything including the initially closed container is going with you. There may be some possibility of the breakcord breaking too soon (e.g. sharp edges/burrs at the attachment point), in which case the PC may have some opportunity to complete the extraction for you.

Actually, I think I remember seeing some video of this very problem on-line somewhere...

That's my understanding, anyway. Doubtless, someone with more experience than me will correct me if I'm wrong.

[Faber]

Side note: Why have I seen video of a guy attaching breakcord to a bridge for a SL jump and dangle his PC over the edge? Why not just take it off if it is really only for extraction?

When i SL i ALWAYS keep the PC on the bridal incase of a premature break of the breakcord,that way i have a greater chance to survive=making a REALLY low freefall,whith a small pc.
On D-bag your canopy is "free" soon as it get out of the bag,therefore you dont need a PC...
If your canopy aint comming out of your d-bag,you then didnt secured the d-bag probaly,and it will follow you to impact,and a pc inside it wont help anything.

So the reasson to use a pc on SL jumps is simply to get a chance more in case things dont go as expexted.

[Tom Aiello]

The bridle is, by definition, not firmly attached (the breakcord is supposed to break), and everything including the initially closed container is going with you. There may be some possibility of the breakcord breaking too soon (e.g. sharp edges/burrs at the attachment point), in which case the PC may have some opportunity to complete the extraction for you.

There has been a fatality due to "premature" break cord breakage. Actually, in my opinion, it was largely rigging error, but that's another story.

I've also seen some injuries from premature breakage that would probably have been fatalities without the PC attached.

[Tom Aiello]

I thought a rear riser turn would turn slower with less altitude loss and a toggle turn would turn faster but with more loss of altitude.

A toggle turn pulls down part of the tail, deflecting air on that side, but largely allowing the airfoil to continue flying.

A riser turn deflects (and often stalls) a large percentage of the canopy--far larger than a toggle turn.

Basically, the canopy keeps flying, but turns, when using a toggle. When yanking down a riser, you can (and often do) stall almost _half_ of the canopy. The resultant altitude loss is very large. This is why we teach students to avoid object strike by using a riser until they are pointed in such a direction that they will just miss the object, then to switch to a toggle.

Your misunderstanding may have come from something I said. Basically, a toggle turn will turn a canopy in less (a) time, and (b) vertical distance, but generally more horizontal distance. In avoiding object strike, the critical component (and the thing you're shortest on) is horizontal distance to the object. Risers will turn the canopy in the shortest horizontal distance, but take more time and vertical altitude to complete the turn. As a side note, this is a good reason to use toggles to correct a 180 off a solid object jumped in a headwind (because the addition of the wind velocity acting over the greater time required for a riser turn makes the riser turn actually use more horizontal distance in that situation).

In your situation here (d-bagged from a paraglider under 300'), your most precious commodity is probably vertical altitude--hence my recommendation to use the toggles to make heading correction.

Misunderstanding this distinction between turns that are "fastest" in three different measurements (horizontal distance travelled, vertical altitude consumed, and time used) is, in my opinion, the root of much of the "risers v. toggles--which is faster" debate. Unfortunately, in this case, as in many things BASE, there is no hard and fast answer--it all depends on the particular circumstances you face.

edit: I just reread this, and I really do sound like a pretentious know-it-all, don't I? Sorry about that.

[pBASEtobe]

...As a side note, this is a good reason to use toggles to correct a 180 off a solid object jumped in a headwind (because the addition of the wind velocity acting over the greater time required for a toggle turn makes the toggle turn actually use more horizontal distance in that situation)

Don't you mean to say riser turn? Shouldn't it be, "...this is a good reason to use RISERS to correct a 180 off a solid object jumped in a headwind (because the addition of the wind velocity acting over the greater time required for a RISER turn makes the RISER turn actually use more horizontal distance in that situation)

I'm interperating this as normally (no head wind) you'd want to do a riser turn in this situation. It would turn a full 180 slower (time), consume more altitude but your forward speed would be slower than a toggle turn and therefore you might not hit the object.
BUT, if you had a stiff head wind the longer time spent turning 180 using risers would help with forward speed but may be long enough for the wind (plus the forward speed of the canopy) to blow you into the object.

Did I understand that correctly or did I just screw it all up?

...as in many things BASE, there is no hard and fast answer--it all depends on the particular circumstances you face.

I've come to that conclusion very quickly.

[Tom Aiello]

Don't you mean to say riser turn?

Yep. Thanks for the catch. I've edited the original post to read:

...this is a good reason to use TOGGLES to correct a 180 off a solid object jumped in a headwind (because the addition of the wind velocity acting over the greater time required for a RISER turn makes the RISER turn actually use more horizontal distance in that situation)

I'm interperating this as normally (no head wind) you'd want to do a riser turn in this situation. It would turn a full 180 slower (time), consume more altitude but your forward speed would be slower than a toggle turn and therefore you might not hit the object.
BUT, if you had a stiff head wind the longer time spent turning 180 using risers would help with forward speed but may be long enough for the wind (plus the forward speed of the canopy) to blow you into the object.

That's pretty much it. It might be more accurate to describe it as forward travel than forward speed, because the distance moved (rather than speed at which it is travelled) is the important thing.

[pBASEtobe]

Yep. Thanks for the catch. I've edited the original post to read:

Oh thank god! If I misunderstood that I was just going to throw my arms up in the air and say, "Fuggettabout it!"