Vents outdated? (cross post from BJ)

**ZegeunerLeben** · May 15th, 2009, 05:03 PM

In fact all my sketchier jumps I've used a Mojo.

>>Why? Because you don't want to be flying faster into a wall?

**mikki_zh** · May 16th, 2009, 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by nicknitro71

In short, if I can't hook it, I ain't jumpin' it, for real, and that goes for tandems too.

Out of here, gotta go sinking rounds...

Wow, you would miss out some really nice jumps here in Switzerland with that philosophy... But then on the other side, you could still go to Lauterbrunnen and make some jumps there :-)

**nicknitro71** · May 16th, 2009, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by mikki_zh

Wow, you would miss out some really nice jumps here in Switzerland with that philosophy... But then on the other side, you could still go to Lauterbrunnen and make some jumps there :-)

Why? You guys have an anti-swoop policy?

**mikki_zh** · May 16th, 2009, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by nicknitro71

Why? You guys have an anti-swoop policy?

Of course not:-) there are places where swooping is no problem, like Lauterbrunnen... But on many of our jumps in the alps swooping is not an option. If you need to land your canopy in high altitude with winds and trees and ugly downdrafts between some house high rocks, I guarantee you that your priorities will not be to try to have a cool swooping landing :-)

**nicknitro71** · May 16th, 2009, 06:29 PM

Then I really gotta get my ass there and swoop the shit out of those rocks!

**hamsandwich** · May 18th, 2009, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by ZegeunerLeben

>>Why? Because you don't want to be flying faster into a wall?

Becuase it was the canopy I had the most experience under and knew how to fly it well and get out of any poor situations. Never once have I felt like I'm giving up something (lack of vents) as a trade off using a canopy that I know how to fly well.

Remember that my style isn't super hardcore low freefalls. Lowest static line is 170-B, and lowest freefall is 240-A. Both done with unvented canopies. Also when I've gone terminal I usually don't pitch in the underground parking garage; in fact I've put a sail slider on many times instead of mesh for full on terminal jumps and the canopies still open quite fast.

I'm not saying vents are a bad idea, nor am I saying people should sell there canopies and look for older technology mojos.

My answer to the title of the thread, are ventts outdated, is NO! But, my experience is that vents aren't a _necessity_ for safe BASE jumping.

-

**nicknitro71** · May 18th, 2009, 03:07 PM

What Abbie meant is that he's gay but he's OK being gay.

It is nice to have a tarp that CAN swoop, meaning that it SHOULD turn when hookin' with front risers. I have flown BASE-specific canopies that were very unresponsive to front risers inputs at my wingloading (0.70); to me this is unacceptable.

Situation 1: Sinking in like a motherfucker in a super tight place with a broken leg after a hit and run. The tarp must support such flight characteristics.

Situation 2: A nice 180 front riser hook and a 200'+ swoop! The tarp must support such flight characteristics.

I concur with Abbie that the Mojo does support situation 1 and 2. And yes, the composite or full top z-po skin is the shitz!

**lcspx** · May 18th, 2009, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by nicknitro71

Situation 1: Sinking in like a motherfucker in a super tight place with a broken leg after a hit and run. The tarp must support such flight characteristics.

Situation 2: A nice 180 front riser hook and a 200'+ swoop! The tarp must support such flight characteristics.

I concur with Abbie that the Mojo does support situation 1 and 2. And yes, the composite or full top z-po skin is the shitz!

The Seven(TM) coming soon from asylym should fit the mold perfectly for both situation 1 and 2

supposedly, better than the ace on each end of the spectrum!

**ZegeunerLeben** · May 18th, 2009, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by hamsandwich

Becuase it was the canopy I had the most experience under and knew how to fly it well and get out of any poor situations. Never once have I felt like I'm giving up something (lack of vents) as a trade off using a canopy that I know how to fly well...

>>That makes sense. I've heard a few jumpers say that on cliff jumps they prefer unvented canopies because it gives them a little more time to decide after that hard 180, rather than a new vented canopy taking off into the rock. I guess if vents are outdated, then there must be something newer.

**stitch** · May 18th, 2009, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by ZegeunerLeben

>>That makes sense. I've heard a few jumpers say that on cliff jumps they prefer unvented canopies because it gives them a little more time to decide after that hard 180, rather than a new vented canopy taking off into the rock. I guess if vents are outdated, then there must be something newer.

Do what ? Are you saying that a vented canopy flies faster towards an object than a non-vented canopy during a 180 ?

Is that due to the Cornelius effect ?

**hamsandwich** · May 18th, 2009, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by stitch

Do what ? Are you saying that a vented canopy flies faster towards an object than a non-vented canopy during a 180 ?

If you agree that vents pressurize the wing sooner, then you have to agree the wing is flying forward sooner.

-

**stitch** · May 18th, 2009, 05:33 PM

Perhaps.........but I have an airbrakes certification.

Check this ;

Jumper A has an unvented canopy with factory brake settings, .80 WL, 400' E, favorable conditions, 2 second delay, 180 on opening.

Jumper B has a vented canopy with dialed in brake settings, .75 WL, 400' E, favorable conditions, 2 second delay, 180 on opening.

Which jumper hits the object first ?

**ZegeunerLeben** · May 20th, 2009, 02:41 PM

>>I don't really know, I haven't seen any studies anywhere saying one way or another regarding vented vs unvented and forward speed on opening, I was just relating what I heard. I would think with properly set DBS it shouldn't matter. I don't think anyone really knows, but if someone does I'd like to hear from them. Anyone know?

**hamsandwich** · May 20th, 2009, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by stitch

Perhaps.........but I have an airbrakes certification.

Check this ;

Jumper A has an unvented canopy with factory brake settings, .80 WL, 400' E, favorable conditions, 2 second delay, 180 on opening.

Jumper B has a vented canopy with dialed in brake settings, .75 WL, 400' E, favorable conditions, 2 second delay, 180 on opening.

Which jumper hits the object first ?

your mom?

**stitch** · May 20th, 2009, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by ZegeunerLeben

>>I don't really know, I haven't seen any studies anywhere saying one way or another regarding vented vs unvented and forward speed on opening, I was just relating what I heard. I would think with properly set DBS it shouldn't matter. I don't think anyone really knows, but if someone does I'd like to hear from them. Anyone know?

Doctor No ?