'Locking off' 3 rings

[Johnny Utah]

Then buy a tracking suit that was developed not to snag on your gear.

If you really fear that why don't you just wrap a velcro band inside the cutaway loop and around the MLW intead of dicking around with the loops?

The velcro strap idea is a step in the right direction, but I can see the velcro strap failing to work in a certain situations. Cables could still get exposed and snagged on things.

If a loop breaks then the strap wont help.

Also, remember the releases that happened in TF. After one riser released once at 100 feet putting the jumper in the river, Jimmy checked the BR rig and it appeared all good but then it release at 100 feet again on the very next jump, once again putting the jumper in the river unhurt thankfully. I would trust Jimmy to inspect and pack my gear so who knows what happened there. My guess is that the cable housing stretched out when the harness/container became loaded which shortened the cables but I'm totally guessing since I never saw the rig and wasn't there. Whatever caused it, neither the jumper or a rigger saw a problem with the rig even after it happened once.

Weird stuff happens. If there is no chance of drowning, then I think it might be nice to eliminate the possibility of a 3-ring releasing while in the air.

[nicknitro71]

Cables should not snag on anything, if they do the rig is poorly designed.

Cables should allow for loading stretch and still have plenty of free cable inside the housing, if not you need longer cables.

The cutaway handle should not snag on anything, if it does it was poorly designed.

The white loops should be in good condition and that's the primary reason why base risers are of the integrity type (so when you pack you don't rub the loops on the ground).

A gear check should include looking up the cables and loops.

Again, slice it as much as you want, you guys are trying to find solution to a non existing problem. With a properly designed system this conversation should have never taken place. If you are experiencing problems reconsider what you're jumping.

If you really fear it get sewn in risers and make sure to get B-12s with them so next time you land on a tree you'll have a way out of it.

Millions of skydives and BASE jumps are made with this system and the very few times that a riser released was because of piss-poor rigging or piss-poor gear check, so don't do piss-poor rigging and don't do a piss-poor gear check.

[Zoter]

So Johnny ...this has been a problem that a few people have had....
All the more reason to explore some ways of being able to deal with it if you choose to jump with 3 rings.
Doesnt sound that common...but as you decsribed...who cares about the 10000-1 statistic ...when you are the '1'

[Johnny Utah]

Zoter, in reply, I never, and never knew anyone, who locked their 3 rings.... but i do know of one person that had a riser release.... he was ok, and it seemed that the issue was from wear and tear on his loop from possibly dragging his rig whislt stowing the lines....

Great point you bring up Mac. I'm a big fan of integrity risers (reverse risers) for the reason you mentioned. In fact Morpheus Technologies added the "reverse riser" option on their order forms as a result of a conversation I had with Rob at a past Bridge Day. Morpheus' standard risers were the kind with the 3-rings in front and after seeing a student of mine with these type of risers, I started telling other students who ordered Morpheus rigs to be sure to special order integrity risers (reverse risers) since they weren't on the order form. During the conversation I had with Rob at BD, I explained how some BASE jumpers are likely to drag the 3-rings on the ground with his standard issued front facing 3-rings and that damage and wear to the loop may occur as a result. That not all BASE jumpers are going to check their gear as well as they should and one might miss the damaged loop and the loop could then break. Since there is no need to cut away in the air during a single parachute jump, then the benefit that integrity (reverse) risers give by keeping the loop from dragging on the floor/ground astronomically outweighs the zero down-side to integrity risers in BASE on a single parachute system (note: in Skydiving reverse risers are black death because the rings can be trapped in between the MLW and the riser and not function properly while in the air). One point that Rob made was that the rings stack better on the front then with reverse because the grommet through the riser reduces the play in the loop and he felt the operation of the cutaway would be smoother with the front 3-rings. My reply to that was once again there is no need to cut away in the air so there is no loss of benefit there.

[fixMe]

all reasons i had my riser's integrated ( "sewn in" as someon put it ) with the harness! not too much to worry about.

but even if you had regular 3 rings , whouldn't the way most manufactures make risers covers nowaday's (i.e. covering all the rings) prevent from wear anyway's?

also i thought that one major reason for intergrity risers was ,amongst other reasons, but one major reason Was the elimination of the "hole" in the riser, which technically decreases the strength in the riser?

am i wrong?

bye

[Johnny Utah]

all reasons i had my riser's integrated ( "sewn in" as someon put it ) with the harness! not too much to worry about.

The reason I wouldn't want to eliminate 3-rings all together is incase I might drown on a jump. Doing jumps at the CaliTWs is different than at Kjerag for example.

but even if you had regular 3 rings , whouldn't the way most manufactures make risers covers nowaday's (i.e. covering all the rings) prevent from wear anyway's?

Drag mats can also be used to prevent wear?

also i thought that one major reason for intergrity risers was ,amongst other reasons, but one major reason Was the elimination of the "hole" in the riser, which technically decreases the strength in the riser?

I personally prefer not to have a hole in my riser for the strength reason. Some riggers would argue that the strength is still more than enough with the hole.

[Johnny Utah]

Cables should not snag on anything, if they do the rig is poorly designed.

Cables should allow for loading stretch and still have plenty of free cable inside the housing, if not you need longer cables.

The cutaway handle should not snag on anything, if it does it was poorly designed.

The white loops should be in good condition and that's the primary reason why base risers are of the integrity type (so when you pack you don't rub the loops on the ground).

A gear check should include looking up the cables and loops.

Again, slice it as much as you want, you guys are trying to find solution to a non existing problem. With a properly designed system this conversation should have never taken place. If you are experiencing problems reconsider what you're jumping.

If you really fear it get sewn in risers and make sure to get B-12s with them so next time you land on a tree you'll have a way out of it.

Millions of skydives and BASE jumps are made with this system and the very few times that a riser released was because of piss-poor rigging or piss-poor gear check, so don't do piss-poor rigging and don't do a piss-poor gear check.

Nick,
I agree that we should all have our gear dialed in,

-BUT-

even though weird stuff shouldn't happen, sometimes it does. Nobody is perfect and jumpers do make mistakes in ways we never would foresee. If someone desires to lock their 3-rings on jumps where there is zero drowning possibility to give them a second chance in case they miss something -OR- something weird and unforeseen happens, then that makes sense to me.

I personally have thought about the slink idea but I have not used them. This is because I do take the up most care of my 3-ring systems, and I check it at least 3 times per jump, carefully inspecting the loop and cable length. So I feel comfortable taking my chances and I understand why you do.

But when the jumper at the ITW told me about his release, he did not know what caused it. I think his best speculation was that something on his camera or helmet snagged the cable on the short side of the white loop and pulled the cable out of the loop, and I think he had hard housings at the time.

Here is a scenario for you, would if one uses a velcro strap through the handle/MLW like you suggested, and low and behold something snags the handle and tries to extract the cables. The strap stops that from happening but the cables did come out of the housing enough to expose the cables but it goes unnoticed during the pre jump activities (or this is all happening while he's in the air). Then when climbing over/up/out or whatever to the exit point a cable gets pulled more (or some belly mount or something snags a cable while in the air) then when he pulls he may hear the "chink" sound and hope it was a slider down jump and that he secured each side of the front slider grommets and that he's over water......

Yea it's far fetched, but stranger things have happened.

[fixMe]

[quote=Johnny Utah;65422]The reason I wouldn't want to eliminate 3-rings all together is incase I might drown on a jump. Doing jumps at the CaliTWs is different than at Kjerag for example.


true!---- i usually, when TIME IS permitted, even on low(er) stuff I grab my risers MAKE sure i'm where i wanna be, Then immediately unloosen my chest strap (for several reasons) MAINLY FOR: PERFOMANCE, BUT ALSO JUST INCASE IN NEED TO GET OUT OF MY 'GET UP' when i land, or splash in or tree in or whatever. and then i unstow my toggle's.

I'VE got it down to a second nature. just 1-2-3 and I Forgot i even did it!

fortunately i've been luckky and haven't tree'ed in or splashed in.

HEY on a side note: what do you think about me loosening my legs straps a little while under canopy -obviously if altitude and time permits???


bye

[Johnny Utah]

HEY on a side note: what do you think about me loosening my legs straps a little while under canopy -obviously if altitude and time permits???
[/COLOR][/B]

your chest strap will move up toward your neck/chin.

[turkishmole]

fuck look at all the action on blinc. the hungarian guy you speak of Johnny was a guy my hungarian mentor knows/knew. i have seen his helmet cam footage of that jump and it is pretty nasty, my mate always told me it was caused by him pitching and then waiting for his rissers with his hands right back over his shoulders, after he opened he moved his hands up to the toggles but his thumb was behind one cable and cut it away. I have used a piece of closingloop through the cutaway loop and the ends tied together around the riser it wont save you as calvin's one will if the loop breaks but it does alow for pulled cutaway etc. If you find yourself in a tree cut the one you tied with your hook knife then use your cuttaway as normal. i dont use it on all jumps especialy low bridges with fast water, and i dont use it as an excuse to neglect my gear checks and inspections.

Hass

[fixMe]

your chest strap will move up toward your neck/chin.

Ooooooooo, !! he , he.



bye

[fixMe]

fuck look at all the action on blinc.

Hass

yeah, it must have been a bad weather day all around.



later

[Calvin19]

here is what I do on pretty much all jumps where there is no water or cops or NPS in immediate area.

[fixMe]

here is what I do on pretty much all jumps where there is no water or cops or NPS in immediate area.

So you just eliminate the "cut-away" cable?

If this the case? Your still releying on the white loop?

And if this is the case? What's the difference?

I mean these questions in a Nice way , not in a combative way.

Hey did you find Bixby? And that other stuff i sent you via Email. Never heard back from you via regular email. i sent ya a bunch a stuff about stuff i dont jump but knew about was wonderin' how it all went?

I guess the boat made it?


edit to add: i just realized that you completly eliminate the yellow cable, before when i saw your pictures i thought you had both? i guess i wasn't paying attention to detail.



bye