no clamp packing w/ ZP leading edge question.

[fixMe]

hey,

a while back i got johnny "Utah"'s packing video just so i could learn how to pack without clamps.

it worked. of course.

So when i picked up my new (at the time) Canopy from the manufactuer and told him how was packin "utah" style ( seperately folding the "A" fold upward without wrapping the tail around the "A" fold as well).

The manufactuer thought with the ZP leading edge that wouldn't be a good idea because of the ZP? So i quit doing it. And not knowing anybody who had packed like that with ZP leading edge canopy i took the manufactuer advice quit doing it.

Just wondering if anybody (johnny) out there has any issues with the ZP leading edge and johnny's exact packing method?


thanx

[nicknitro71]

You can dick around all you want with pack jobs, unless you really fuck things up, it will open and open on-heading. It's a mental game, that's all.

Both Abbie and I flat pack when we jump stupid objects like JT's bridge.

I mean flat-pack like skydiving student/tandem dirty flat-pack. Guess what? Exactly, no difference in heading and that goes the 90 degrees built in turn theory.

I am guilty of the mental games as well. I would not trash flat pack to jump off a 300' building or cliff even tho I know it's going to work just fine.

[fixMe]

i'm talking about because of the ZP and "johnny's way" of packing i was told the amont of force through the nose during the onset of pressurization might be too much.

Again with the exact pack job. tail around D, C , B stack only. A is folded opposite way upward and un-rapped.

Anway, anybody who packs like johnny utah, or johnny utah and Jumps a ZP leading edge canopy. PLease help me.

but i know what you me mr. nitro about the Mental thing. That is most of BASE. It's in your head most of the time espeacially on a new object/exit point for sure.

bye

[Johnny Utah]

hey,

a while back i got johnny "Utah"'s packing video just so i could learn how to pack without clamps.

it worked. of course.

So when i picked up my new (at the time) Canopy from the manufactuer and told him how was packin "utah" style ( seperately folding the "A" fold upward without wrapping the tail around the "A" fold as well).

The manufactuer thought with the ZP leading edge that wouldn't be a good idea because of the ZP? So i quit doing it. And not knowing anybody who had packed like that with ZP leading edge canopy i took the manufactuer advice quit doing it.

Just wondering if anybody (johnny) out there has any issues with the ZP leading edge and johnny's exact packing method?


thanx

People often have different views in this sport. Remember in my video I say, "In the end you will come up with your own style of packing." This is because most everyone packs at least a little different from each other. Considering information from different sources (as well as your own experience) while developing your packjob is not a bad idea... but I would recommend that you have a personal understanding of why you're doing it the way you choose.

I have been packing the way I do for a long time. One of my favorite canopies was a Mojo 240 with a full ZP top skin and I packed it the same way and had awesome performance on the openings. That's the canopy and pack job I won the 1998 West Coast Cup with and also the canopy and packjob that I chose to jump off the sickest underhung Es and gnarly Bs with.

The reason I fold the A section separate from the rest is so that the cocoon holding the B, C, D, and tail stack can stay together for an instant while the nose and A stack begin to expand. The hope is to contain the back half of the canopy for an instant encouraging nose first (front to back) inflation.

In my opinion, if you wrap the A stack with the rest in the cocoon then as soon as the nose starts to inflate and expand, it blows apart the cocoon and the chance of containing the tail for an instant longer while the nose expands a bit more, is lost. I have some video of sub-terminal openings of mine back before I used tailgates and the video shows front to back inflation that looks like I'm using a tailgate that is working very well, but there was no tailgate being used.

Right now I'm jumping a 280 Blackjack CUS (front 3rd of upper surface is ZP). I still pack it the same way. The ZP is a bit more difficult to pack than all F-111 but that's going to be the case no matter how you pack. Once in a great while on different canopies I'll do a quick packjob whereby I wrap the cocoon around the A stack as well. It has opened for me every time.

During slider-up jumps I may or MAY NOT roll/fold the nose. With higher airspeeds I will roll or fold the nose depending on the jump. On a terminal velocity jump on a canopy with vents/valves and ZP I significantly roll the nose. Doing a slider-up at the Perrine I will NOT roll the nose. Doing a 600 foot B slider-up I will not roll the nose... especially if I'm going to check out the basement.

i'm talking about because of the ZP and "johnny's way" of packing i was told the amont of force through the nose during the onset of pressurization might be too much.

Do you have a Flik by Apex? If not, then what canopy do you have? Was that the only explanation they gave you as to why they think.... "seperately folding the A fold upward without wrapping the tail around the A fold as well".... "wouldn't be a good idea because of the ZP?"

Are they suggesting that you should inhibit the nose on low airspeed jumps and lowish slider up jumps?

I don't see how allowing the A stack to begin expanding without blowing apart the cocoon would cause "too much" force through the nose.

As far as I'm concerned, on a low airspeed jump I want to get my nose inflating quicker than the rest of my canopy and I do everything I can to encourage that. I'm confident that the canopies I jump (Mojo's zp and non-zp, Blackjack CUS, Troll MDV) can withstand the forces involved because they have over many years and many jumps.

The only time I start to inhibit my nose is at high airspeeds (slider-up, near-terminal type jumps). It's meant to soften the opening of course. As a parachutist you determine your own comfort level.

Perhaps they're talking about how they prefer to pack for terminal jumps.

Personally I don't use a tailgate on terminal jumps so I use the same tail control methods that I use on lower airspeed jumps. If I have masking tape then I'll do 3 wraps with that but my speculative opinion about masking tape is that it is definitely better than nothing but I don't think masking tape works as reliably as a tailgate. I do roll the nose for high airspeed openings according to the jump. I do use a main stow on every jump and usually direct slider control on terminal jumps.

Hope this helps.
Do what works best for you.

[fixMe]

quote from J. Utah
"Perhaps they're talking about how they prefer to pack for terminal jumps."

YEAH. i guess i left that out? That's pretty much what his concern was, the terminal forces.


email sent (johnny@johnnyutah.com) with a video bonus.

Thanx man for taking the time to put your words down.

later

[hamsandwich]

fixMe, packing zp isn't a big deal. I've packed zp-topskin reserves into javelin molar bags. If my retarded ass can do that, you'll be able to deal with a some ZP foreskin.

I saw a some prototype CUS FLiK's out here last year and it sounds like they're finally on production with using Adam's (www.crmojo.com) CUS technology. Looking back it took a while for others to catch onto CR's valving instead of just big holes in the bottom skin too.

One of the beauties of the CUS vs the entire topskin is that you're not really dealing with a canopy that is slipping around on itself. the ZP portion is down on the ground and you are mostly manipulating F-111.

I wouldn't worry about opening forces on the canopy either. I agree with Johnny that the forces to deal with are mostly those your spine takes on opening. Unless BR is using a substandard material or joining technique there's no reason the zp will 'blow up'. It seems to me that the tail of a canopy is the first thing to blow open. Unless you're using a Tempo at 170mph, then the whole thing just tears in half.

-

[hamsandwich]

YEAH. i guess i left that out? That's pretty much what his concern was, the terminal forces.

Was their concern about the canopy or your back? I'm sure those guys tested it and wouldnt put out a product that they know blows up at terminal.

[fixMe]

nah, i think it's just their personal preference of packing. And just thought that packing that way (cocooning D - C - B stack and not cocooning the "A" stack with the ZP) would pulling the "cocooned" part out first and the A stack out last with the ZP , they didn't like it as a personal preference.

As far as getting hurt at terminal because of ZP? i"m not worried about that , i open at full flight/track at full on terminal and i'm fine. I sent johnny a video of one of my last terminal jumps this season on my 242 zp , and at the end of the video im anything but hurt, maybe hysterical or excited, but not hurt. I like ZP.

I just wanted to see and hear opions on that exact packing technique and ZP frontskin. Johnny wrote me a nice PM as well as a nice note hear too. Much apreciated.

I've done "the" packjob, jumped "the" packjob at terminal numerous times with no problem (on my F111- 266 unvented) They just got me thinking is all. About the segregated "A" stack with the ZP?

Again i think it's just comes down to personal preference. And i look up to Todd and Co. for advice, cuz i don't really have an "official" mentor and only jump with one other person or by myself, so i don't really obsorb other peoples "styles". so i just listen to what "they" (Todd and the guy i jump with) have to say, which i have learned a lot from them. But it is nice to learn from a whole range of different thoughts as well.

I've done a bunch of jumps on my 242 FLiK ZP-unvented and love it (and packing ZP isn't a big deal at all). i'VE ORdered a 266 FLiK ZP-unvented as well but haven't received yet. Yeah it's nice to see sharing of idea's being accepted .

So now i've got that visual out of my head , of All The force etc. I'm gonna give packing like "this" a shot again.

Later and if anybody else wants to chime in , i'm always , All Ears. EVerything i do is formed around everything i obsorb from other people, just in baby steps ya know.