BASE round parachute opening heights

[BASE_689]

Well well well.
Now that in this part of the world time is passing, during which time number of partecipants is slowly growing, and same partecipants go scouting new BASE sites, we are starting to spot certain sites that are definitely "water jumps".
I could be considering buying a rig for water jumps, and so a question rises up naturally.
Granted that by now we are "expert" about opening times/heights of valved/non-valved Flik's/Fox's/Black Jack's/Troll's, in the sense that we know that we can jump with a (disputable!!!) safety margin:
32 m - 105 ft in DB
37 m - 121 ft in SL
60 m - 197 ft in freefall
(of course, the above numbers can vary from group to group and from jumper to jumper)
for those out there who consider themselves "expert" in (packing and) jumping water round BASE parachutes (as H2O and Tektite), and knowing that water round BASE parachutes open "slower" than square parachutes (Fox/Flik/BlackJack/Troll),
What could be the jumpable heights (for water jumps) with same (see above) safety margin when using a water round BASE parachute for, let's say (I won't consider DB water jumps with a round):
1) water SL jumps with a round?
2) water freefall jumps with a round?
Heights that can be comparable to "my" 37 m and 60 m?!?!?!?!?
I know that I will get lots of different answers, but I would like to have an opinion like:
If you jump with a valved Fox X m in SL and Y m in freefall, you will have the same "safety margin"(1) jumping a H2O/Tektite from (X+W) m in SL over water and from (Y+Z) m in freefall over water.
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Thanks so much
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(1) granted that we are jumping over water, I would like to know which are the correspondent increase in height jumping a round (with respect to jump a square) supposing we are jumping over "solid earth", in the sense that there could be certain water jumps where we don't know if the water level under the surface is 1 m or 10 m. Using a water jump equipment is because we definitely are going to get wet, but staying on the safe side considering that there could be "only" 1 m of water depth (and then rocks, which in one case we know could be very, very likely).

[346]

I've logged 30 jumps on rounds: 23 on a 22' SAC and the rest between a 23' Tricon, 24' Phantom and a 26' Phantom. The best I can tell you is that rounds aren't quite as consistent in their opening characteristics as squares - so its difficult to make a set of guidelines, let alone a rule book.

I have taken a 1 second delay from 300' (which felt long enough at the time) to over 4 seconds from 486' (which is REALLY... quite... long... enough...) Just when you think you have the opening time pretty dialed in, it can scare you. In fact, I was lower than planned this past weekend...

And, regarding your 1m deep landing area.. I land pretty firm on my rounds - even the 26'. I would consider that to be a rocky landing area covered with water rather than a water landing area with rocks at the bottom. I personally wouldn't jump a round there. Sounds like it could hold interest for a swoop competition, though...

[BASE_689]

> The best I can tell you is that rounds aren't quite as consistent in their opening characteristics as squares
This is very interesting to know. Thanks.

> I've logged 30 jumps on rounds: 23' on a 22' SAC and the rest between a 23' Tricon, 24' Phantom and a 26' Phantom
I am NO expert at all about rounds. I know only of Tektite (20') and H2O (19') simply because I saw their photos and description on Asylum and Apex website. Never saw one in person.

> so its difficult to make a set of guidelines, let alone a rule book
I was fearing that...

Where do you deploy your SAC, Tricon and Phantom from? Which container? BASE container? How do you "find" the right BASE container for the above round parachutes (=right size of BASE container)? Velcro rig of pin rig would be better?
I do understand you jumped those rounds because either you own them or you have acess to them. But for me, having to buy a round parachute, would you suggest in buying a BASE specific water round parachute? Which one of the two (IYHO, In Your Humble Opinion) would you buy? And why?

> I land pretty firm on my rounds - even the 26'. I would consider that to be a rocky landing area covered with water rather than a water landing area with rocks at the bottom. I personally wouldn't jump a round there.
Understood. So, in case of a jump, I would go and make a good check with wetsuit, mask and fins BEFORE jumping

> Sounds like it could hold interest for a swoop competition, though...
Not possible!!! It's a dam!!!!! Quite narrow, indeed!!! That's why I am thinking about using a round instead of a square!!!

Using a (BASE) round, would you jump 40÷50 m - 131÷164 ft in SL?
Are rounds more consistent (about opening) if deployed in SL?

[346]

>Where do you deploy your SAC, Tricon and Phantom from? Which container? BASE container? How do you "find" the right BASE container for the above round parachutes (=right size of BASE container)? Velcro rig of pin rig would be better?

As of this Spring, I have 3 of the 4 canopies in dual-pin rigs that I built myself. I did so because 1) it gave me the option of performing aerials, 2) I had the technical ability to build pin rigs now and didn't see the point in building what I consider to be higher-maintenance velcro rigs. I think the major manufacturers would be happy to build an appropriately sized rig (velcro or pin) for you and your round. Drop them a line.

>Having to buy a round parachute, would you suggest in buying a BASE specific water round parachute? Which one of the two (IYHO, In Your Humble Opinion) would you buy? And why?

Each of the rounds that I own were formerly skydiving reserves that were "condemned" for acid-mesh problems. (Having "washed" each of the rounds in a river, the mesh is no longer acidic, but they're no good as reserves anymore) If you're willing to look a little, you can find one of these canopies for $100 USD or less. Unfortunately, I can't offer an opinion on the BASE-specific rounds as I have never jumped one. They're each smaller than what I jump, which means they'll most likely open faster, harder (shorter lines means less elasticity) and will probably open a bit more consistently than what I jump. I believe each is constructed to be very light and with low pack volume, so they'll likely dry faster much faster than the ones that I have. On the downside, you'll likely land harder - making deep water a necessity.

>Using a (BASE) round, would you jump 40÷50 m - 131÷164 ft in SL?
Are rounds more consistent (about opening) if deployed in SL

I have only done one DB with a round - no SLs. I'll see if I can get the video of that jump in a format I can share with you. Maybe you can work out the approximate opening heights from that.

Remember, these canopies work solely on the basis of drag. Any turn you make to offset drift or off-heading openings will be accomplished by "spilling" air from the canopy. This increases descent rate AND will start some oscillation of the canopy (if you weren't oscillating already). You do NOT want ANY chance of drifting over land while jumping these things.... A lot of people don't understand that you also don't flare a round. Ideally, you want to land with the risers all the way up for a few seconds to maximize the drag being produced and help null out any oscillation.

And, speaking of video.... A number of my round jumps earlier this year are in this video: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/...n=file&id=2545

Enjoy!

Mark

[Raymond Losli]

I jump Pioneer / mostly K-XX's / done at least 30-40 jumps on them them. I had a Pioneer super-22 also good.
Only in water because of size. / I find them really predictable for Staging a Fast & Consistent opening.
.

[BASE_689]

Thanks everybody for replies.

> ...and didn't see the point in building what I consider to be higher-maintenance velcro rigs
I agree with this point.

> I think the major manufacturers would be happy to build an appropriately sized rig (velcro or pin) for you and your round. Drop them a line.
Once I will have collected few €'s, I will drop them a line. Or, I could drop them a line and then proceed with buying afterwards...

Thanks for the tips about "flying" a round parachute.

Another question for you or for anybody that could know the answer.
I am considering jumping this dam. I know that, usually nighttime, when electric power demand is very low, electric company take water from "downstream-the-dam" and pump it "up".
Now, there are these water pumps that takes water from "the-water-just-below-the-dam" creating turbulences and possibly sucking down "anything" that is in this "pumping area".
Does anybody knows if the area of water interested in this "pumping up" is the one below the dam itself?
Does anybody knows if the above pumping happens ONLY nighttime or it could happen also ANY TIME of the day?
We know that water level can increase ANY TIME of the day due to opening of "gates" so IMMEDIATELY releasing a lot of water and so increasing the water levels of few meters in few seconds time, but this is NOT what scares us.
What scares us is the possibility of being sucked down into the pumps.

[Faber]

I jump Pioneer / mostly K-XX's / done at least 30-40 jumps on them them. I had a Pioneer super-22 also good.
Only in water because of size. / I find them really predictable for Staging a Fast & Consistent opening.
.

i thourght you jumped rounds as your too old to make stand up landings at this point,water is then you only choice i guess...

[Raymond Losli]

Dude the rate that you are going you will never even Live to reach my age.
.

[Faber]

I take that as a compliment

your one of the most hardcord OLD bastards i know

shoot me an PM if you want the stills i took of you jumping off a cliff somewere

I also have one whith the getaway car,its owner and his stand up attack dog

hope to make it to your area again enxt summer

[Raymond Losli]

I will PM you.
also:
hey send me some of those small -Coins- the ones with the small hole in the center.
Those things work great as a Closing-Loop, stop-washer.
.

[Faber]

first saw your post now after responding your pm,ill burn a cd for ya,and ship it along whith some coins

[hamsandwich]

I got a Pioner Super 22 for sale. PM me and make an offer. Just pulled out of plane rig, never been used or wet.


-a

[cpuck]

U guys have any video of jumps on rounds?

[Johnny Utah]

U guys have any video of jumps on rounds?

http://johnnyutah.com/images/roundjumpperrine.mov



ref:video library:
BASE Jumping Video Library - Johnny Utah