direct control

[guest]

Quick question, in addition to the rubber band on the suspension lines prior to s folding in the tailpocket (indirect control?) there is also the practice of rubber banding the slider to the top of one of the center lines. Ive been told different things, so, the question: 3 scenarios; 2000-3000 terminal or near terminal, 1100 ft antenna, and NRGB. With these 3 height objects, how many wraps of the rubber band on how much of the slider. Ive been told as much of the slider under as many wraps as possible for terminal, with 2 wraps for everything else; and also, 2 wraps of the rubber band for terminal, one wrap for everything else. Any consensus? At bridge day how should it be done correctly? thanks.

[guest]

First, we must understand the reason why we rubber band the center part of the slider to the right center C line (the C line just opposite to the C line where the tail gate would be attached when jumping without slider). I personally put the rubber band through the tape where the right center C line is connected, without any interference with the line itself.
We rubber band the slider to center right C line to prevent a premature descent of slider before the right time (i.e.: before line stretch). So we do not want to refrain slider from coming down, we simply want that slider is not coming down before its time. That's it.
Stated in advance that the correct rubber band for rubber banding the slider is a small flat rubber band cut in half lengthwise (the same rubber band you use for closing the tail gate when assembled and in use) and that the correct amount of slider cloth to be catched inside such a rubber band is just the central part of the slider itself (simply pull (not hard!!!) the fabric up towards the top of canopy, away from lines/container, you will end with having about 2÷2.5" of slider fabric protruding from the rubber band, remember to keep everything tight, lines, canopy fabric, etc.), I give you (my) answer: I personally rubber band with two wraps my sail slider when I do terminal jumps (8÷10÷12 s), I rubber band with one wrap my mesh slider when I jump sub-terminal objects (5÷7 s).
I do this because my Fox opens really fast, and I am feeling happy with what I am doing, so it depends a lot on the particular jumper (=suspended weight) and on the particular canopy. I did about 30 skydives with Fox (BASE packed) inside my Javelin with two wraps on the slider, having slightly hard but still comfortable openings, before starting to BASE jump.
My advice (to be on the safe side): try to rubber band with only one wrap your (mesh) slider (in the end, with only one wrap, the slider fabric is relatively loose), see how fast/how confortable your canopy opens, and possibly pass to do two wraps on higher jumps.
My advice: never do more than two wraps (in the end, there are jumpers jumping their mesh slider at terminal who never rubber band their slider)!!!! You want to prevent premature descent of slider, not refraining your slider from coming down :D !!!
Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
Andrea :7
#689

[guest]

thx andrea. ive seen rubber bands used for this purpose and they all were uncut regular rubber bands, the same kind used on the primary stow for the suspension lines. Anyone familiar with the number of stows for the slider using this style of rubber band?

[imported_Tom Aiello]

The tailgate rubber bands have the advantage of being small and weak enough that they are extremely unlikely to hang up your slider.

I'd recommend just taking the big rubber band off your canopy and replacing it with one of the small ones.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[guest]

ok seriously. to make sure I understand. I take one of those small stow rubberbands cut in half lengthwise just like br recommends for their tailgate (to trap the rear of the canopy on opening), I larkshead this thing through the top load tape at the top of the suspension line, pull 2 inches of the center of the mesh slider through the rubber band, and then take one (1) wrap around the slider material. Correct? That would work off Bridge day with base specific gear? The reason Im puzzled is that my second hand mojo came with a normal size uncut primary stow rubberband in place for direct stow, briefly explained as a double stow for slider control off Bridge day. This rubberband is very stretchy, were the tailgate rubberband is small and tight as sh*t. After narrowing the diameter of the tailgate rubberband by larksheading it in place, if you take a single wrap on 2 inches of slider material, it sounds as if something that small would hold the slider far more tenaciously than a double wrap larger rubber band which is more stretchy and has a greater diameter. Are we talking about the same thing, tom, or are you thinking of taking less than 2 inches of the slider in this kind of stow? Thanks...

[web]

i think your confusion stems from your definition of single and double stows.

single stow=pull the material/lines/etc. through the band.

double stow=pull the stuff through the band and take an additional wrap around the bight with the band.

two wraps=triple stow=the evil black stuff.

[guest]

I perfectly agree with Web. There is a confusion about what I/we mean by "one wrap" and "two wraps".
So I state it very clearly. After having placed the small size of flat rubber band cut in half lengthwise (the ones used for closing the tail gate) by a larks head knot to the tape connected to the center C line, I define "one wrap"/"two wraps" as follows.
ONE WRAP/SINGLE STOW = pull the slider fabric through the band, so that there is one continuous "line" of rubber band that wraps the fabric
TWO WRAPS/DOUBLE STOW = pull the slider fabric through the band and take an additional wrap around the bight with the band itself, so that there are two continuous "lines" of rubber band that wrap the fabric
END OF THE STORY: do not even think about doing three wraps!!!
I hope I have been clear enough.
I repeat: granted that there are jumpers that take their mesh slider to terminal (without any rubber band wrapped to their mesh slider), I see no danger (if done properly!!!) in doing ONE WRAP to your mesh slider, see how your canopy opens/how you feel, and then, possibly, move from there to do TWO WRAPS for higher jumps, if necessary.
Personally, if I had ever the chance of jumping NRGB :D , I would use ONE WRAP to my mesh slider.
I hope it helps.
Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
Andrea :7
#689

[skydvr18]

Okay, I have no experience with terminal BASE jumps. I was initially told NOT to use a tailgate when using a slider. However, I've heard jumpers say that they use a tailgate when going terminal to slow the opening (in addition to a slider). Opinions on this??

Blue Skies,
Josh

[guest]

Why even bother doing this? I have about 70 terminal jumps, and the only thing I do is the indirect control stow at the tailpocket. I don't believe that there is any way the slider could come down prematurily. You seem to forgot about the wind speed you are dealing with. 100+mph wind is going to keep your slider up in the canopy until forced down by opening expansion. It's not going to simply fall down the lines through s folds during opening sequence. With the stow at your tailpocket, it's locked in until line stretch. It all seems too redundant. Too many links in the chain.

Mike

[imported_Tom Aiello]

The slider extends a different amount past the center C line (where the stow band is) on different canopies.

It sounds like we're talking about the same thing as far as the rubber band and location (lengthwise cut small band, as per tailgate, girth hitched to the line attachment point of the center C line).

In my experience, with a Mojo 260, I only had around 1/2" of slider mesh, so I used two wraps of the rubber band around a single fold of mesh. With a Fox 265, I had around 2" of slider mesh, so I doubled the mesh over and used a single wrap of the rubber band. With a Blackjack 280, I've found that I have to double the mesh back and use a single wrap of the rubber band. I think the key is to learn what an appropriate tension is, then check the tension (since all rubber bands are slightly different). With the level of tension I use (achieved as described above), I have taken delays between 4 seconds and 15 seconds with no slider hangup.

If you have two inches worth of mesh slider above the rubber band, I'd probably recommend doubling the mesh over and using one wrap of the rubber band. Without seeing your gear, no one can really say for sure, though.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>they use a tailgate when going terminal to slow the opening (in addition to a slider). Opinions on this??

To quote a friend of mine:

"Black, Squiggly Death."

Unless you are a very experienced jumper, testing a new setup, I would strongly advise against this. The possibility exists that the combination could entangle and/or slow the slider sufficiently to snivel you into the ground.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[imported_Tom Aiello]

Hey Web:

Can you drop me an email, or post your email address?

If I remember your location correctly, I may be in your area in a few weeks, and want to check in with you about some objects.

Thanks,

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[guest]

Why are you attempting to slow the openings down so much? How slow do ya want them? I am a low time jumper, with only 4 terminal jumps, which have been from "A's"...I've been jumpin' these with 515 and have to agree with his reasoning...I think you're makin' things more complicated than they should/need to be. I personally have no use for a snivel on any BASE jump. I feel that a mesh slider and the indirect stow at the tail pocket are enough to obtain a reasonable amount of comfort on opening, and that's good enough for me. A snivelin' canopy on a skydive where you're deployin' at 2000' is one thing, but when I'm exiting from that altitude or lower, I want sh!t to happen when I pitch. I personally don't want my canopy trailin' in the breeze behind me any longer than necessary for a "comfortable" opening. Of course eveyone has their own opinion on what "comfortable" is, but I feel that as long as my teeth aren't rattlin' and my legs aren't sore and/or bruised, then the opening was acceptable, and there is no reason to do anything differently...Hope I'm not p!ss!n' any of you high timers off, as this is just meant to express another (my LOW experienced) opinion...and ya know what they say about those.........stay cool and keep a LOW profile...704

[guest]

Then, in your opinion, what is the cause of tension knot induced slider hangup, and thus its solution? The direct stow stages the opening giving a fraction longer for lines to even out and take the load assembling on the canopy evenly, so that the slider rushes down rather than sneak down in stages.

[guest]

Well, in my opinion, I would say it probabily results from poor line stowage and or sloppy packing in general. Does the slider cause the knot or is it there before? I don't know the answer to that.
mike:P