Three Ring Fix ???

[guest]

Ok, I'mhoping some riggers out there will offer some good suggestions.

Lets assume the following criteria for this discussion:

1. I have three ring release risers (the kind with a hole and gromet).

2. I have no intention of cutting away my canopy. (no water jumps, etc.)

3. I don't want to send my rig backfor a mod or order different risers.

Can anybody sugest a field modification to ensure the riser will not release?
How bout usning some spectra closing loop material to girth hitch the smallest ring, feed the two ends through the grommet and then tie them to the cuttaway cable housing grommet???

Any suggestions are appreciated.
thanks
MB

[imported_Tom Aiello]

Since they are the experts, I have sent an email to Relative Workshop asking them to comment on this. If they don't post here, I'll try to share anything I learn.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[346]

I've used a rapide link before. As you assemble the 3-ring and pass the loop through the grommet in the riser, insert the rapide link through the loop. Screw the rapide link shut and tighten it with a crescent wrench (finger-tight plus 1/4 turn is standard). The rapide link will be against the back of the riser and you don't involve the cutaway cable or housing in any way.

Assuming it is assembled properly, the only way it could release is if something physically breaks.

Mark &-)

[guest]

Nice,

That sounds like an eazy, simple solution.

thanks
MB

[speed]

Be careful of water landings. Havent people lost canopys at Bridge Day to have the recovered down stream after being pulled under by the current. I would hate to have your body attached to the end of it :(

This sounds like a good idea if used in the right area but some places it could be deadly. Not like a riser release isnt either but you get my general idea.

My problem with this is that if riser release were in issue We would have seen it before now. I think that the three ring is a fairly well tested setup, used on every skydive and base jump today. We all know the mini riser ..... and we dont use mini risers anymore do we :)

I would be curious if these risers are they specific to one style, manufacturer, loop length used on the third ring or cut-away cable length. Can anyone compile a list of release and info from the gear review ? How many have there been, not many I have heard about ? But that doesnt mean I hear about them all either :)

As I remember, wasnt there two release at the perrine, What type of risers was that, forward or rear facing... I know the gear was reviewed after the fact and found to be in legitimate order, I think.

[d-dog]

At the Perrine recently I saw someone jumping a 3 ring setup with a veeeery long "closing loop" on one riser. Going from memory, there was at least an inch of loop sticking out past the ring, with the cable going through it.

For no good (logical) reason, this seemed very dangerous to me. That much slack in any system seems to be asking for trouble. Anyone else seen this? Is it a potential problem, or was I just over-reacting?

I suggested he get it fixed, but the jumper kept using it and didn't appear to have any problems. Still. . .

Peace,

D-d0g
ddog@wrinko.com
www.wrinko.com

[base311]

In re: the veeeeeery long loop.

I noticed this long loop when I got my warlock/risers from Vertigo (4/20/00). The longer loop immediately caught my attention and I checked up on it through both Vertigo and Relative Workshop.

The riser specification was changed somewhat recently (don't know the date) and this may be what you saw. I cannot comment technically, but something about the geometry of the older specification was causing a higher load to be placed on the loop and that this was thought to cause 'cable-suck' (and that is the technical term). I know that some information was publish specifically concerning Tandem riser 3-rings, but I believe also that the standard sport riser specification was changed for similar reasons.

Tandem Riser 3-ring locking loop "product improvement announcement"

http://www.relativeworkshop.com/tech.../psb100495.pdf

Booth 3-ring Riser Specifications (10/4/1995) from RWS website (note that it's on Australian Parachute Federation letterhead):

http://www.relativeworkshop.com/tech.../psb100495.pdf

NOTE: I do NOT know if the last link has been superceded.

Riser failure is my bad dream (though it seems that I may have to revise that to riser failure AND pc mals).

bsbd,
Gardner

[base311]

i'm an idiot.

the link to the tandem 3-ring product improvement announcement is:

http://www.relativeworkshop.com/tech.../psb120199.pdf

[guest]

The connector link through the loop sounds like
it will work fine. If ya just want a little extra strength, but still want to be able to jetison the canopy in the water, or if being chased etc.,
then you could use a tandem cutaway pud with the metal cables, assuming they will fit in the rig you are using PROPERLY!! [not too short etc.]

PLEASE check with your harness/container manufacturer prior to trying this!!!!


:P

[imported_Tom Aiello]

I did some similar research recently with BASE 615. The folks at RWS were quite helpful. It seems that they lengthened the standard loop to avoid problems with hard cutaways on skydives. They did an extensive six month research project to determine the new (longer) length.

I still have a little nagging feeling that says "if it's for cutting away easy under high G spinners with mini-rings, why are we using it that way"? I wonder if, in the future, this will prove to be another area in which BASE diverges from skydiving.

For now, I'll stick with the Relative Workshop specs, though.

Gardner, if you like, I can forward you the correspondence from RWS on the loop length.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[imported_Tom Aiello]

Sorry for the BASE numbering error. I just try to avoid using people's names in this forum, which sometimes leads me into trouble.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[Mike]

You forgot to ask...what size rapide link????

Come on now, there's no such thing as an "eazy simple solution"

[guest]

>Can anybody sugest a field modification to
>ensure the riser will not release?

BASE jumpers disabling their Three Ring systems, was pretty common in BASE jumping during the early days:

The first unintentional riser release, in BASE, I ever heard of is a fellow jumping from a local AM radio tower back in the early '80s. He said after he completed the 35-40 minute climb and is going over his gear he noticed his Three Rings are hot to the touch.

After a three second (slider down) delay one riser locking loop parted and the riser released. This jumper had his slider tied down to his front risers, and the released riser caught in its slider grommets. So instead of going in, he spun in, under a big skydiving 7-cell, and lived. (A similar thing happened to "The Pick" at Half Dome. However, he was jumping "mini-risers" another whole horror story in themselves).

So before jumpers began to wonder if AM towers caused cancer, something Moe Viletto dubbed, "the slow bounce," they worried about losing a riser and began disabling their Three Rings.

This practice spilled over into other object categories. I've seen all ways of doing it too. Mark Hewitt sometimes removed his risers all together. His connector links were then attached directly to his large harness rings. I remember doing some low bridge-water jumps that way. (However, I wouldn’t recommend not being able to release a canopy around water, ever). In our paranoia we envisioned, other failure modes, like building strikes that hooked your cutaway handle. (All new BASE gear, has, or should have the cutaway handle partially “hidden.”)

However, with modern BASE gear, disabling your Three Rings isn’t really necessary. If you absolutely feel it is, spend a few bucks and go the L-bar route. And carry a killer knife . . .

Nick
BASE 194

[Craig]

> In our
>paranoia we envisioned, other failure modes,
>like building strikes that hooked your cutaway
>handle. (All new BASE gear, has, or should have
>the cutaway handle partially “hidden.”)

Interesting. I'd assumed it was a primacy thing, stopping people reverting to skydiving drills in the event of a malfunction. Hadn't considered the premature release angle.

Interesting post...

[Craig]

Tom, 615 is a different British jumper called Craig who owned the same type of gear :-P

Attached is a picture demonstrating what caused my alarm. The manufacturer says it's okay, RWS says it's okay, Tom says it's okay, so I guess it's okay!