Slider/altitude question

[guest]

I’m considering a slider jump and need some advise/input. I’m not very experienced with sliders(only about 30-40). It’s a 600’ cliff with a relatively tight opening area. It’s big enough to fix a 180 and fly out. I’m planning on going mesh, lightly rubber banded (2 wraps) to the inside C. Center cell is exposed and the rest of the nose isn’t rolled; just the regular folds. 40” PC stowed.
The landing area is about 1000’ down a seriously steep talus. If I have to land on the talus, my cat like reflexes and superior canopy skills (yea, whatever) will keep me alive but probably not out of the hospital.
My question is, with a 3 second delay, approximately how high off the deck will I open?
For you regular visitors to the area, this is a brand new one. Just opened last Saturday. We will be there again this coming weekend too.
C-Ya

[guest]

The question is not how but why?.

[Dwain]

The industry standard recommendation is that any delay less than 4 seconds slider up has a high probability for an offheading opening. In the 4-5 sec range slider up openings are OK, however they greatly improve in terms off consistency at the 5+ mark.

The general rule of thumb is if you are jumping a vertical wall slider up then you need to commit to at least a 4 second delay. You can safely take a BASE specific canopy to 4 seconds slider down (yes it hurts like hell but unless you are wearing a heavy camera helmet it isn't unsafe).
For objects such as the Perrine Bridge (486') slider up is a great option for 3 - 3.5 second delays because object strike isn't an issue but the ability of your body to withstand 20 slider down openings in a few days is a point of concern.

In very general terms, taking a 4 second delay slider up from a 600' cliff is acceptable but you will need to be fast and efficient in your corrective response to a serious offheading to avoid a talus landing (using rear riser input only where absolutely necessary to minimize altitude loss during heading correction). The minimum experience level I would recommend to do this would be someone in the intermediate skill range (don't ask me to assign a minimum jump number as jump numbers alone are a stupid/misleading/dangerous tool to determine ability) with some experience in dealing with bad offheadings.

If you take a 4 the height you open will vary largely dependent on many factors such as gear, gear configuration, deployment altitude, wing loading etc etc etc. In American BASE terminology it will be "low" :-( but not "Oh F*ck" :'( low.

>Its a 600 cliff
>The landing area is about 1000 down a seriously
>steep talus.

So is it 1600' (600' cliff + 1000' talus) jump to landing or 1000' (600' cliff + 400' talus) jump to landing?
If it's 1600' then this sounds like a great wingsuit possibility! :D

[Dwain]

BTW: By "Delay" I am referring to the time period from exit to when the p/c leaves your hand, not from exit to line stretch.

[guest]

Do a few jumps from a forgiving span and make some mental notes.

MB

[guest]

Thanks for the input.
It's 600 sheer/overhung + about 1000' talus.

[guest]

If you're only taking a 3 second delay, why bother with the slider at all? Especially since you have that long talus to run out.

[guest]

I just wanted some opinions on the subject. Softer openings, better groundrush.....ya know. I never get to jump anything this high. The talus doesn't really have anything to do with it. If you don't hit it on opening, it's easy to outfly.

[guest]

Hey Wes,

One of these days we'll get to jump together...

I'd like to come check out this new cliff! Is it further or closer than Phoenix?

see ya soon,

JIM

[web]

sounds like a great spot for a slider made from large-bore mesh....1/4"X1/2" holes (6mmX12mm) oriented spanwise in a 20"X26" slider.

i have quite a few 600' to 700' jumps with one of these (and a couple from down around 450'). it comes down the lines quicker than conventional mesh sliders and works for me up to about 4.5sec delay.

[d-dog]

Disclaimer: I am no BASE God and am in fact a low timer relative to many posters here (of not most), so take my advice with the requisite numbers of grains of salt. Listen to the sage advice from the saner (ahem), more experienced fellows posting here. Ha ha.

Leave the slider off, increase dramatically your chances of on-heading happiness, and suck it up a bit with the moderate whack from no slider 3 secs. We jump an object out here alot that is under 500 feet and I take about 3 (sometimes a little deep in the 3, I admit) pretty much every time, slider down. There's a little whack, I grunt when the canopy pressurizes, but unless I did it a few times a day for several days I can't imagine it being really nasty. My theory is to relax on opening and not fight the whack - I think it makes for less bodily trauma, but that's just me.

Now, a 180 to cliff strike . . . that's nasty indeed. And I do think slider on jumps under 5 seconds or so really increase off-heading probability. It makes logical sense - one more item in the mix to make things go funky.

At around 4 secs. no sliders get painful in my mind. Or, anywhere in the 3s but lots of jumps in a row. Other than that, sliders spook me at less than 5. That unsettling second of snivel before inflation. . . to me, I can just hear the dice of God rolling and rolling, and one day they'll come up snake eyes. Spoooky.

Then again, I'm not a psychotic aussie who dumps at 175 feet terminal and walks away only with a rolled ankle. Friggin' hell. . . that's crazy even in my book, and I ain't known for sanity. Some mentor I got stuck with ;-)

Peace,

D-d0g
ddog@wrinko.com
www.wrinko.com

[bps]

Hi Wes!

Sounds like life in your area is going well!

Take away opening variables, and I think that it is safe to say that you will be open by 200ft off the deck, if not slightly sooner.

As a disclaimer for those of you who are just learning: taking a 3-second delay slider-up off a solid object is not normal practice -- if anything, it is a bad idea.

This is not to say that Wes has a bad idea. Wes has a lot of experience and is very aware of the potential dangers. He has the experience to evaluate the particular sight and then make an informed decision on how to reduce the dangerous variables AND he has the ability to work within them.

I've always been intriqued by low-speed slider deployments. I find that shoulder positioning *through* the opening is critical. You must remained focused throughout the entire opening sequence and weight your shoulders appropriately.

I also find it possible to release the brakes before the canopy completely finishes its opening sequence so I can make immediate and timely corrections should I need it.

I've always had my eye on a well-known 620ft cliff in Moab for a possible slider-up jump. Smart, you ask? In general terms, no. But with the right skill-set, and the correct freefall execution, it is reasonable as a calcualted risk.

As luck would have it, I was able to witness Dwain jumping this cliff slider-up. He is an excellent sub-terminal tracker and he reaffirmed my beliefs on what it takes to perform this jump slider-up.

For the last 8 months, I've been working on my ability to launch and track well in the 4 to 4.5 second range. Wow, have I learned alot along the way! I have found it possible to get farther away from an object than I ever thought was possible.

That's not to say that this particular jump is made for slider-up jumps. But it's a possibility (as a demanding jump) for those with the right skills.

Hope this helps!

C-ya,

Bryan Stokes