Tombstone

[guest]

I am just wondering why it cost $250.00 to participate in the Tombstone Challenge? BridgeDay cost $50, and the Perrine contest is similar. Where does the $$$ go if we can all show up and jump it at no cost any day of the year?

Let's do the math from last year:

37 jumpers at $250 = $9250.00
Prize money = $1000 total
Gear and other goodies given by manufacturers.

Can anyone help me undestand this? Do I get a packer assigned to me, a heli lift to the top, does a band play, or does this include meals and a tent to stay in?

$?

[imported_badenhop]

The reason for registration fees is to cover the cost of organizing an event.
At Tombstone Challenge, the cost is $250.
At Bridge Day, it's only $60.

True, you can go to Moab, and jump for free.
But what we offer is an organized event.

NRGB is different, you can only jump it (legally)
on Bridge Day.

You are certainly welcome to go jump these sites on your own anytime you like, you do not need to wait for us.....

There are many jumpers who do support our venue.

Your mathematical annalysis is incomplete.
It doesn't include the cost to run the event.
Permits, insurance, medical staff, awards, prizes,
IPBC Judges travel, etc., etc.

From the "tone" of your post, you insinuate that you're a participant.(Do I get this or that, etc.)
Well, as a participant, you pack yourself, and hike to the top.

There will not be a band.

We do not offer meals.

We do offer affordable housing, limited availability.

We will have an awards ceremony and party......

[guest]

. . . and I believe it actually costs 300$ this year.

[guest]

Please, complete the analysis. I'm sure many people would enjoy knowing the rest of the equation. Perhaps the IPBC should be non-profit organization were all proceeds go to the advancment and support of the sport. I see that the IPBC has advanced certain aspects of BASE, but what is the IPBC's mission statement? Advance base or make money? Sanctioning bodies can seldom do both and still represent all participants.

I'm sure that many jumpers agree that there should be some unifying body to represent the sport and sanction events, but it should be supported by and for all jumpers.

Complete the analysis you speak of and open the books. If the IPBC is a for profit venture just let everyone know. If the expenses you listed are what they are then everyone can make informed decisions.

Its Profitable Business- Cheers!

[imported_badenhop]

We hope so.

But.....

If we ever make a profit, it will not be calculated in increments of $250.

If we ever make a profit, it will be from another
source, bigger than individual jumpers.
When that day comes, participation requirements, including fees, will see a big change.

Registration fees cover the cost of the events.
The expenses are real, and "what they are".

You've come up with some suggestions about unifying bodies and organizations.
Why don't you start something.

End of thread.

[guest]

Look, everyone badmouthing the IPBC for charging the entry fees they do should back off.

Anyone who organizes any kind of event knows there are all kinds of costs associated with it, and the competitions are voluntary events that no one is forced to participate in.

Competition is not my bag, and considering the current state of affairs between the IPBC leadership and myself, I wouldn't be doing IPBC events even if I wanted to, but the bottom line is:

They have done good things for BASE jumping by running their competition circuit, things that have benefited all BASE jumpers in many ways.

This comes principallly by their contributions to changing the mentality of spectators and whuffos from "will he live?" to "will he win?"

Any time an activity has competitions, it changes the nature of the way that activity is perceived. The IPBC has done good things in this regard.

It also provides a forum and opportunity for people to get together to have fun in an organized way... a way people can choose to join -- or not.

This is a good thing too, and should not be disparaged. Many of us do not BASE jump to compete, or to be around a bunch of other people, but that doesn't mean we should talk badly about those who do.

And why shouldn't the IPBC and its principals make money? This is a capitalist country, and this is an entrepreneurial activity that provides a benfit to the people who voluntarily participate in it. As far as I'm concerned, those guys could make a profit of 75 cents from every dollar and it would be fine. If their customers are willing to pay, and are happy with what they get in return, then there is no harm, and no foul.

ANd whatever their profit margin, no one in the IPBC is getting rich at $250 times 50 minus most of it just to make the show run and cover the travel expenses of the people who make it run.

Robin Heid

[guest]

Nice reply, even better dodge. The only thing anyone can derive is that you do in fact hope to have the IPBC be a profitable business. Business' serve their owner's wants and needs. The IPBC serves it's ownership.

If it's not profitable, open the books. I'm sure the supporters of IPBC would be shocked to know that it's losing money and be willing to pay the "real costs" associated with the venue they enjoy.

Thread not quite done, but very athoritative.

[guest]

This is a strange turn of events, Robin defending the IPBC.

You illustrate an improtant issue however, that because you are not on good terms with the IPBC (at least avery), you really don't feel welcome nor is it likly that you are welcome. So we have a for profit venture who's events some are welcome at, some are less than welcome.

I supose that I see the positive the IPBC has done for base. What is clearer is that the IPBC is more self serving than some might like the base jumping public to believe. I'm not even saying that is wrong since I am a hard core capitalist, just brand yourself properly so everyone understands.

You of all people Robin should see what's going on. The advacement of BASE for BASE, or the advancement of BASE for the IPBC.

This isn't an attack on the IPBC, just an inquiry into an organization that "has my base jumping interests" in mind.

The original question was simply why does Moab cost $250 and Bridgeday only $50? Not an unreasonable question. Excuse me for wanting to know why it costs less to travel to Moab than to have a a few people run an accuracy meet.

[guest]

>The original question was simply why
>does Moab cost $250 and Bridgeday only
>$50? Not an unreasonable question.
>Excuse me for wanting to know why it
>costs less to travel to Moab than to
>have a a few people run an accuracy
>meet.

I suppose it may have something to do with participation. If you have 300 participants, instead of 30, using the same facilities, then the cost will likely be less. But since the cost of having an ambulance sitting there is the same, no matter how many people jump, the cost will be more (per person) for a smaller event.

It may also have to do with Bridge Day being supported by a variety of organizations (among them the NPS, good lord!), all of which help provide support (for example, I believe the rescue boats at BD are volunteers from the local rafting companies). Contrast this with the Tombstone Challenge, which is supported solely by the IPBC and the BASE community.

I don't know, but it seems to me the IPBC is doing a heck of a job. Somehow I doubt Avery is in it for the cash, since he appears to have a real job, and a real income (making the possible $1000 or so left over after an IPBC event a pretty minor inducement for him). And I doubt Dennis is in it for the money, since as far as I can tell money is about number 72 on Dennis' list of life priorities.

[guest]

your assumption is pretty close but missing a few elements.
when we came up with the concept of a BASE competition it was to help with the way the public perceives our sport and creating some fun for ourselves and others. this was in 1992 the first base competition. except for a few i was more than laughed at. it did not bother me. after a couple of years a few guys took the concept seriously with me. avery and harry mostly. i explained my vision to them and they believed in it as much as me. that vision being:
1 a circuit of base jumping competitions to not only help with the image of our sport but to help advance it as well. it has worked. ask anyone who participated seriously and they will tell you it has helped better there skills at one point or another.
2 to create an avenue and opportunity for ourselves as a business venture. we never intended to "make money" off the base jumpers and we have not. do the long math on what it takes to run an event. not to many folks really know because not to many folks have ever run such an event. they are organizational nightmares. give it a try and you will see.
3 my promise to the jumpers who wanted to participate in what we are doing was to to offer the "opportunity" (when it arrives) to compete for real prize money. for the top winners and there teams to travel the circuit with at least some expenses and the opportunity to acquire sponsorship for themselves as a competitor in the circuit ect., when we get some real sponsorship. to this point we have had NO REAL SPONSORSHIP.
4 create an outlet for fun competitive BASE jumping. i know it is not for everyone and that is good. there is so much more to the sport than attending or participating in a base competition.
our events are open to pretty much everyone. they were not at first because the slots were extremely limited do to the fact we had a hard time convincing any government agency to allow us to put on these kinds of events. now it seems so common to many that it has always been this way. remember it has been an up hill battle and more times than not it still is.
we have never said the IPBC was a non profit organization. what i will tell you is we have not made a dime off any individual base jumper. any money that is or was left over went right back into our efforts of trying to make things happen. we still are and things are starting to happen.
anyone who thinks avery ,harry or dennis has made money on the ipbc should think again. do we want to make money? YES. do we want to make money off the base jumpers? NO. we want our events sponsored plain and simple. when we get there, and as we have promised all along it will be spread around and there will be what we have promised, opportunity.

i personally am a competitor, i have always liked to compete at sports. this year however i cannot really compete on our circuit. we plan to have some real prize money at the events and i hate to think of what might happen if i were to win. the chances of me winning are are pretty high. so now not only am i not making a dime i can not even do what i like to do best which is compete and have fun. i would love for someone else to have a competition so i could compete and not have to worry about all the politics.

our competitions are open to everyone who have the required experience. the more that sign up the bigger the cash purse. we would very much like to award a few thousand dollars at each event this year. it will depend on the attendance.

to success, fun and better days,
dennis

[guest]

I have a hard time believing that anyone in the IPBC is even bothering to answer a unsigned, post.
Own your judgement clown.
Brian

[guest]

I think that pretty much clears it up. Thanks for a well thought out answer Dennis. I don't have anything against IPBC. I just didn't / don't see how Tombstone cost 5 times to run compared to bridge day. Tom's comment about BD having 300 people would be relevant, except that the 300 or 400 people at BD are there for BD, and only 50 or 60 do the IPBC there.

Simply put, I don't like paying $250 just to compete so I wont. That sucks because I was planning on doing all three stops and was looking forward to it. I can see and deal with $50 as the fee, but the $250 is really steep, which is why I inquired.

Show me it costs $250, and I'd be inclined to do it, as maybe others would. Out of 300 or 400 jumpers nationwide only 10 to 20 percent are getting involved with IPBC. Maybe getting higer participation is the unturned key to getting things to the way the IPBC would like them. Imagine hundreds of base jumpers at multi day events. Now that would gain some of the media attention the IPBC seeks.

Somthing to thinks about.

And yes Brian, this is anon, the IPBC still runs BD (or vice versa) and I still like to jump there)