criminal record

[guest]

don't even want to bring it up but i've got to know..... what am i looking at if my plans go afoul and the man gets his hands on me after an illegal hop? I've heard $2000 fine, gear confiscation, and trespassing. even heard jail time mentioned for repeat offenders. I'm mainly concerned with what shows on the record. I'm heading towards an aviation job and they try not to hire "risk takers". will my record reveal what i was doing while trespassing or will i be able to cover it in an interview? Not that it really matters as I'm certainly not planning on getting caught and wouldn't let it stop me anyway. just looking for some info from someone that may have already been there. blue skies to all............

[guest]

As someone who has been both busted and has been in the aviation business for 27 years I can tell you unequivocably...Don't Do It. (aviation that is...)

[imported_mknutson]

First of all, I do not know anything about the Aviation regulations.
But, I do know BASE-Jumping/Parachuting.

Depending upon where you may have jumped, determines the legal issues you face. BASE-Jumping is *** NOT *** Illegal. Anywhere except in the US Park Systems. x(

* If you jump a man-made object and did not get permission, then you are tresspassing.

* If you forced your way in (Very Bad Idea always!), then you where breaking and entering.

* If you are in an NPS area, then Aerial Delivery is a class B misdomeanor, :o
but the fines are $2,000, loss of gear (parachute, helmets, tents everything), one year probation and possible jail time until your court date, which could be a couple of days.

* If you are in a state park, the fines can be anywhere from $50.00 to $2,000.00. Most I have heard of do not confiscate gear, just the NPS.

Other countries have much different laws. However, most every other country in the world, allows parachuting from public places, I.e cliffs, bridges that allow public access etc.
Most countries I have seen, still have tresspassing laws for private facilities.

2 Things I could say:

1. Do not be a patron in the Park Service. The BLM does want your money and allow you to jump legally. This is also true with several state level facilities. So show your support by being curtious to those communities and spend money there. That is what they want and need. Obviously the NPS just has too much tax money already and does not need your money. :9

2. Leave the USA on holidays. The NPS, with all of it's funds and resources, has stollen every EPIC place in america from us. Italy, Norway, Switzerland, France, South Africa, Mexico, South America, etc.... They do not have the F****D up legal system we have in the USA, so they don't care to protect anyone. So you are free to pursue any activity you want. They want you to spend money in their country and will be very happy you did. :7 :7 :7

I have been part in activities that have challenged the legal system here, but my heart is in other places. I would prefer to take the $4,000.00+ USD I gave to the NPS, and spend it in Europe. Heck, that much money would give me a REALLY long trip there. Trust me. Now don't take my above NPS comment wrong. I was more than happy to spend that money for the cause. But to the previous post, I want to make the point if you are deciding whether to spend that much money, my opinion is NO. If they don't want your LEGAL money, go spend it somewhere else!

[I decided NOT to keep rambling on until I see the reaction to the above comments first.]

[hr]
Thank You

Mick Knutson :D
[link:www.blincmagazine.com|BLiNC Magazine]

"Everything you ever wanted to know about BASE Jumping, but didn't know who to ask."
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[guest]

I got busted by the NPS in 1993. The conviction still pops up here and there, recently when I got licensed to sell real estate and when I brady billed to purchase a handgun and when I reenlisted in the Army reserves. It always starts with a question, "What's aerial delivery?" I've subsequently explained what it was and that was the end of it. I got my license or my firearm and went happily on my way. I inquired of the powers that be how long that stays on my record, it's already been 8 years now and they say that it really never goes away, just stays on your record for the rest of your life, no big deal the folks that see it look at it like it's a littering ticket or something like that. Mick is right though where I would have been better off spending that fine money on a nice BASE jumping trip to Europe. You never plan on getting caught you just end up having a run of bad luck.

[guest]

A thought:

>1. Do not be a patron in the Park
>Service. The BLM does want your money
>and allow you to jump legally. This is
>also true with several state level
>facilities. So show your support by
>being curtious to those communities
>and spend money there. That is what
>they want and need. Obviously the NPS
>just has too much tax money already
>and does not need your money.

I am a classic NPS patron. Every year I renew my Golden Eagle Permit, which allows me entrance to every National Park in the nation (given that I live two and a half hours from Yosemite, and enjoy climbing those granite walls, I find it quite economical).

The interesting thing is that in the last six years, I have twice received surveys from the NPS in the mail (I suspect that they randomly survey folks who hold all year passes), inquiring as to how they might make the Parks a better place.

Aside from a few comments on climbing anchors (which aren't relevant here), I have (both times) written rather lenghty diatribes about BASE.

It is unlikely that my comments will ever change their policies. However, it is obvious to me that the NPS is interested in serving their customer base (pun intended). I feel that we can have more impact on their policies if we remain part of their customer base than if we boycott them.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[guest]

sorry to be ignorant, im a low time jumper building experience up. When im ready for a building and if i get caught, what is the usual penalty for "trespassing" provided that i did not break in, but rather went off a construction site, or was a guest in the hotel i choose to jump. we'll assume that didnt jump over an occupied street or sidewalk to avoid "public endangerment". What exactly happens to me, how long am i hung up in copshop, and how much is that gonna cost me? thanks in advance....

[guest]

Your mileage may vary.

In Florida, trespassing on a construction site is a felony. Jumping from a hotel you have a room at may be legal - but you can be banned from that property forever (and will be trespassing if you come back). There is a whole range of Public Nuisance, Disorderly Conduct etc charges that will be a hassle to deal with. Basically, in US there is no safe legal heaven no matter what you do :-(

bsbd!

Yuri.

[guest]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-01 AT 10:15 PM (PST)[/font][p]The penalties I've heard range from:

The cops saying "damn, boy, you're nuts! Don't ever do that again," and letting you go, to;

$2000 fine, overnight in jail, two days of work release program, gear confiscated, and;

Pretty much everything in between.

As a general rule, if the cops know the site gets jumped, they're harder on you. Also, if you pay for access (i.e. rent a room or buy a ticket), things go easier on you.

But, as Yuri points out, in the good ole U.S. of A. it's pretty much a crapshoot.

And, as Mick points out, it's way cooler to spend that $4000 on a sweet trip to Europe, South Africa, Malaysia, or any of the world's other more enlightened areas.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[imported_mknutson]

Davy, don't take this the wrong way, but trying to jump a building is NOT the way to build up your experience level. Advanced objects are going to be the reward for hard work at your local, less dangerous site. This is not to say don't try to advance yourself. I would just say don't chase the object!

Many people are trying to get a BASE number to quantify their BASE experience. Hence the desire to understand how to jump a building. But the most dangerous thing you can do in BASE-Jumping, is chase an object. Anybody care to comment on that?

I am in no way discouraging your advancement, only trying to heighten your awareness of the added danger in trying to advance yourself too much too quickly.
If & when you do attempt a building, be 100% sure of your Plan "A", "B", & "C"! Don't try to figure it out during the exercise. This will greatly complicate the entire jump. Do your home work like you are doing now. Go over it many times. And walk all potential landing areas many times. As bad as a landing are may seem, you may have to land there if things go bad. And always plan for the worst case scenario! Then when all goes well, you will be that much more excited about it. :D

Please keep me informed on how you make out, and I always love to hear about the achievements of users to this site. I just hope that the information here can help you get what you desire personally and stay safe doing it.

[hr]
Thank You

Mick Knutson :D
[link:www.blincmagazine.com|BLiNC Magazine]

"Everything you ever wanted to know about BASE Jumping, but didn't know who to ask."
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[guest]

thanks mick. actually, im not ready for buildings yet, im boring myself sick with bridges right now developing skills like; going stowed (for dexterity), on-heading performance (gear confidence), landing accuracy under fire (duh!), exit performance (no slipping head high while looking over your shoulder) etc. etc. my interest in this thread is whether its even worth the bother and trouble of stepping up to more entertaining objects. I want the challenge, but 2000.00 fine, gear confiscation, jail, and police conflict for not committing a crime is too rich for me. i have a short temper, and a powerful dislike for cops. 5 years in the navy are gonna make a conflict with cops "interesting" to me, so sounds like a long term overseas trip is the ticket. when that time comes i hope your website is as helpful with contacts and locations. Until then i just look at the stratosphere and shake my head; look at it and shake my head...f@#k!!! Cant we have an event there for once?....thanks, cya...

[imported_mknutson]

>thanks mick.

You are very welcome!

>for buildings yet, im boring myself
>sick with bridges right now developing
>skills like; going stowed (for
>dexterity), on-heading performance
>(gear confidence), landing accuracy
>under fire (duh!), exit performance
>(no slipping head high while looking
>over your shoulder) etc. etc.

Everyone has been there, and ever jumper after you will be there as well. Just like grown ups say...Don't waste your teen years, live them to the fullest...Don't waste your BASE-Education years and fun jumps...If you do, then when you are forced into a very dangerous situation, then you will not have all the tools you need to handle any situation.

> my interest in this thread is whether its
>even worth the bother and trouble of
>stepping up to more entertaining
>objects.

This is just natural progression. Take it slowly. Go to an antenna next, or maybe a relatively safe cliff etc.

>I want the challenge, but
>2000.00 fine, gear confiscation, jail,
>and police conflict for not committing
>a crime is too rich for me.

Actually, this is not a challenge in my mind, but a dangerous distraction. Some people like to play cat and mouse games. But I prefer to clear my head 100% of all thoughts, including those of legal implications, and focus on the jump alone. I actually have found that my awarness is greatly heightend on these jumps. I also find that because I am more focused, my adrynalin is far greater per jump. Think about it, you can actually spend more time realizing what you are about to do, before doing it, instead of looking ledt and right for authorities.

> i have a short temper, and a powerful dislike
>for cops.

This is a very bad combo in the legal situation.

>when that time comes i hope your
>website is as helpful with contacts
>and locations.

I have been here since 1994. I will be here for many more years to come. BLiNC has managed to reach over 40 countries worldwide and avarages 180,000 requests per day. So when you are interested in going anywhere, I can assure you that you can contact them here.


[hr]
Thank You

Mick Knutson :D
[link:www.blincmagazine.com|BLiNC Magazine]

"Everything you ever wanted to know about BASE Jumping, but didn't know who to ask."
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[guest]

thanks mick, one last question, in terms of safe progression, since i have an expert's attention for once. What exactly is the hierarchy of objects in terms of beginning to advanced, easy to hard. In round figures, generally. i realize there are more fixed objects than just b.a.s.e., but in terms of these letters. obviously bridge is easiest. i hear different things from there. to me an antenna is an advanced object because its like jumping into a box canyon: obstacles behind and in front, others say its a beginners object. so does the hierarchy easy to hard go: bridge, antenna, cliff, then building? Sorry to be a bother, last post, thanks in advance. cya

[guest]

Hi Davy:

The relative difficulty of objects VARIES RADICALLY by the object.

For example, both the easiest and hardest objects I have ever jumped were "E" objects. The easy one was a 3000', well overhung cliff with a huge (bigger than most DZ's) landing area. The hard one was 350' underhung, had a big formation making a 90L the same as a 180, and a tiny, downhill sloped landing area littered with ankle breakers.

I think it's a BIG MISTAKE to judge objects based on their type at any level of experience. Now is the time to get used to evaluating each object as a unique challenge--a valuable habit at all stages of a BASE career.

In response to your specific question about antennas with guy wires (and their similarity to box canyons)--there is a huge difference. The walls of a canyon block the wind and create rotors which tweak your openings, blow your canopy around in flight, and are highly unpredictable. Antennas, by their "wind-through" nature, do not generate these unpredictable gusts. In fact, many people view high winds (not too high) on an antenna as a good safety factor (as long as it's between the wires), since it will blow you away from the object cleanly. (For example, I once jumped a wind through "A" object on a load with 5 out of 5 opening greater than 150 degrees. This was no big deal, since we had a 25 mph tail wind--we couldn't have hit the object on purpose! )

So, in response to your question, I don't think there is a hierarchy. It's easy to think of gnarly low bridges, as well as easy, tall buildings. Plenty of cliffs are safer than antennas. It just depends on the precise characteristics of the actual site.

Your best bet for learning site evaluation would probably be to find some more experienced jumpers, then tag along on a road trip and evaluate several sites with them.

I don't mean to sound preachy (I just re-read what I've written and realize I may) . If I do, I apologize. Please keep asking questions--it's the easiest way to learn (and in this sport, the hard ways can be very hard).

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@ucdavis.edu

[imported_mknutson]

I could not agree more Tom. I did not want to go into the difficulty aspect of objects in this thread. I am about to enter in some of the documents that I have been working on. Then we can focus on that issue in it's own thread.
Davy, please keep an eye on that!

[hr]
Thank You

Mick Knutson :D
[link:www.blincmagazine.com|BLiNC Magazine]

"Everything you ever wanted to know about BASE Jumping, but didn't know who to ask."
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