Terminal packing?

[Drew Eckhardt]

I'm going to be making lots of terminal jumps from a 2700' cliff in the next week, although I've never been anywhere where delays over 8 seconds were possible and my last slider-up pack job was made a year ago - so it scares me a bit more than my usual 300-500' cliffs.

The canopies in question are my trusty Fox 245 and a new Dagger 244, both with mesh sliders.

The rigs are a Warlock two-pin and Stunts velcro rig for less-than-terminal (the helicopter is already paid for, it'll be packed, and long canopy rides are FUN so why not?).

The last time I packed as I would for slider-down but with a slider and the brake lines routed through the keeper rings: 45 degree folds of the lower corners in the A/B and B/C groups; each piece of fabric folded separately; a bit more than the center cell of the tail tucked in between the A/B and B/C group; a small rubber band on the closing stow; and the center cell pulled open arround the pack job so its topskin forms a hood a few inches down from the container yoke.

Should I be doing anything different? Does the answer change when I fly my wing suit?

[FFC1]

<<The last time I packed as I would for slider-down but with a slider and the brake lines routed through the keeper rings:>>

How exactly do you pack the slider through the keeper rings??:7 :7

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>...Fox 245...

Is it a standard FOX? If it has bottom skin inlets (Vtec) you might want to do a bit more to slow it down.

>...Warlock...

Does your Warlock have the "Yuri mod" stiffened pin flap?

If not, I would advise against using it for a wingsuit flight. I am aware of two prematures on these rigs during wingsuit flights. Obviously, a premature on a BASE jump (which is also a very possible horseshoe) has a very good chance of making it your last jump.

>Stunts velcro rig for less-than-terminal

Why not use it at terminal? If it's old and dodgy, you're probably making a good decision, but I've seen Stunts velcro rigs in good condition that could take terminal jumps.

>a small rubber band on the closing stow

Why a small one? Pretty much everyone I know uses a large rubber band on the tail pocket stow. I'd imagine a small rubber band would be quite tight on the lines.

>Should I be doing anything different?

How big is your PC?

>Does the answer change when I fly my wing suit?

I'd use a bigger PC for the wingsuit than for standard terminal.

I'd really, really not use an unstiffened pin cover flap on a wingsuit.

Do you have WLO toggles, a hook knife, or some other way of dealing with a line over?

I'd also suggest having a look at this thread:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/foru...gi?post=373718

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[imported_mknutson]

1st off, where are you going? I wanna play! ;-)

2nd, here in CH and in NO, I have the same issues. What to do....
Anyways, My personal opinion is that I _will_ _NOT_ use a PC smaller than 36" unless I am in NO for a 3,000'er at least. My 36" & 38" is very trusty.

Also, I _NEVER_ use a sail slider myself. Only mesh. Even in NO.
What I do is tend to make sure to quarter the slider when packing so it is presented to the air cleanly.
I do not tie the slider up to the B lines.

Also, when dressing the nose. I take the center-cell, and just set it on top, open about 1-2 inches. Not pulling it open like on a jump <5 seconds. THen, I roll the left and right 3 cells inward toward the nose about 3-5 rolls. THese are small rolls so this is not really that much. But the rolls are pointing inward toward themselves. Then, I se each of the 2 rolls on top of the center-cell essentially touching the other roll. So the center cell is hidden.
Then continue the pack job...

Now I only pack this way for Italy and NO. When less than 2,000', I tend to pack the same but not hidding the center-cell.

NOTE: This has worked for me. This does not gaurantee this will work for you. Especially because you can't actually see it. There are also thousands of jumpers here on this site and many have similiar, and/or very different views and techniques. This is just one of those.

The only thing I can say for sure is that when you are at 400' to 800' above the ground, traveling at 80 to 100 MPH, the last thing you want is a snivel. PC or Main snivel. It still sucks. You need things to open "Yesterday".

BTW, you should NEVER use a tailgate on any slider up jump. Just thought I would mention that.

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>1st off, where are you going? I wanna play! ;-)

I'm guessing its that Gigantic rock that is being done legally in a National Park, in a free and enlightened country.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[JJ]

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[JJ]

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[JJ]

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[JJ]

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[JJ]

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[JJ]

YO!

For terminal, I roll the nose inward on both sides about 4 to 5 times and stuff the center cell between the rolls. I also have a small black rubber band on each center cell C line attachment point. With these rubbers I do two wraps each on the center of the slider after I fold it once - so now it has four wraps total. For the indirect stow, I use a large rubber band and wrap it twice. I also tested with rolling the nose, direct stow wraps and indirect stow wraps using the aforementioned setup on over 75 terminal jumps using a 245 and 265 Vtec/valved/five upper control lined on either side F111 FOX - and had nothing but good results.

I highly recommend using a small hole mesh slider for terminal - I tested five slider types - large hole, small hole, F111 sail, , ZP sail, F111 sail with a coffee can sized hole in the center - last summer and found the small hole mesh to be the most comfortable and consistent slider for terminal - initiating deployment as low as 200 feet AGL. .

IMHO, 36 inch F111 is the BEST pc for terminal - and also the best for any slider up jump - oscillating much less than any ZP - vented or not. I also pack the same for wingsuit as I do for terminal except I don't roll the nose - leaving the center cell fully exposed and use a 38 inch small hole F111 pc.

>BTW, you should NEVER use a tailgate on any slider up jump. Just thought I would mention that.

I've been using two wraps with masking tape around my upper control lines just above my slider for about a year now on sub terminal slider up jumps - tested on over 180 jumps so far. Nowadays, when I do terminal jumps with a SMALL HOLE MESH slider I use a tailgate - with two wraps of a small black rubber band - to lessen the potential of a line over - tested on only a few jumps so far. The question seems to be..."is this effective given the slider is choking off the opening canopy and even a small separation (when the slider begins to descend the lines) of the upper control lines breaks the tape/opens the tailgate... so is the masking tape/tailgate really helping to prevent a lineover? Video analysis shows that the nose and tail open at approximately the same time - sometimes the nose begins to open first - but the tail never begins to inflate before the nose, therefore it seems to be helping. But, more testing is needed to conclude that it is really effective. It is psychologically effective for me now, and I don't like jumping unless some sort of restriction is put on the upper control lines, so it does have some value.

Prevention is better than cure for a line over... but both prevention and cure is better than just prevention. Does anyone know if WLO type toggles have had a save/cured a line over yet in a real-life situation? When they have a reported save, I will think about buying some...

Got a little carried away in my response...
Hope this helps.
Good luck and have fun.

JJ
:-)

[Drew Eckhardt]

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[david]

Just out of curiosity, why not roll the nose to the outside. Would it make a difference?

[motherhucker]

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[imported_Tom Aiello]

I always roll the nose to the outside, rather than to the inside.

I do this because in theory (i.e. the effect is psychological, rather than observed) the interior cells should inflate first (while unrolling) promoting better opening heading.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com