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Thread: Packing question

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  1. #1
    imported_Tom Aiello
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    RE: Packing question

    Basically, these are both about staging the deployment. The two techniques are generally called "direct" and "indirect" slider control, although the locking stow also serves some other purposes.

    >I saw him make a 6" single stow w/ rubber band, and set the stow between the tail pocket and the canopy

    This locking stow is a form of slider control, often called indirect slider control.

    The idea is that the stow keeps the slider up in the pack job until you get to line stretch. This prevents the slider from sliding down the lines too early, which could result in very hard--to the point of injurious--openings.

    The locking stow is also used to stage the deployment. The idea is to keep the canopy together in a bundle until it reaches line stretch. This prevents the lines from being pushed outward while they are still slack, potentially creating tension knots (or worse). It is for this reason that some people also use the locking stow on slider down jumps.

    >I've also heard of jumpers making a stow(s) of slider in a rubber band.

    This is "direct" slider control. It keeps the slider up in the pack job until the pack job achieves line stretch.

    >How much slider should you grab with this technuiqe

    It's going to depend on your slider/line geometry, which is peculiar to each canopy and size.

    The most common techniques are to use a tailgate rubber band, and either double the rubber band, or double the slider. I've seen one (very) experienced jumper who takes a bite that approaches six inches. I personally tend to take about an inch or so. But it's really going to depend on the canopy in question.

    >...and why?

    Same reason as indirect control. To prevent the slider from descending prematurely.

    There's a good post by Dwain somewhere where he explains why you need at least one of these on every slider up jump. Let me see if I can find it.

    Hope this helps.

    --Tom Aiello
    tbaiello@mac.com

  2. #2
    Fork And Spoon Operator ZegeunerLeben's Avatar
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    RE: Packing question


    >>Thanks Tom as always you are a wealth of knowledge. So it sounds like if you use the locking stow you get the additional benefit of keeping your line groups together all the way to stretch. So what are the pro's/con's of direct slider control? I'd be curious to hear why direct control on sldr up is needed. The canopy in question is a mojo 260 w/mesh sldr

  3. #3
    imported_Tom Aiello
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    RE: Packing question

    >So it sounds like if you use the locking stow you get the additional benefit of keeping your line groups together all the way to stretch.

    Yes. But it's not so much keeping the groups together, as preventing the lines from beings snapped sideways. You also get the ancillary benefit of keeping the slider up.

    >So what are the pro's/con's of direct slider control?

    Pro: Pretty much the best way to keep the slider in the pack job.
    Con: I've seen some snivels when direct slider control is very tight, and takes a big bite of slider.

    Generally, it's also easier for indirect control to "fail." The rubber band is under more tension, so it can break more easily, and in a line dump situation (say, from worn velcro) it's possible for the lines to pull out of the locking stow before line stretch.

    If your indirect control fails, and you have no backup, there is a chance your slider will descend prematurely. If that happens, you're pretty much toast (picture a terminal slider down opening).

    The only real downside is potential snivels. As a general rule, the Ace/BJ is the canopy I've jumped most susceptible to these kind of snivels, but since many older (i.e. more cautious, higher pulling), very experienced jumpers prefer to soften their terminal openings, I'd bet this was an intentional design characteristic. My general rule is to use direct control on all other canopies (note that my experience with the Flik and Dagger are limited, so I'd use direct control while I "learned" the canopies openings, then decide if it made for snivels or not, and adjust my packing style accordingly).

    >I'd be curious to hear why direct control on sldr up is needed.

    If you don't use indirect, it's absolutely required.

    >The canopy in question is a mojo 260 w/mesh sldr

    I believe CR recommends using both direct and indirect control with the Mojo. I've made something in the neighborhood of 100 slider up jumps on a Mojo with both direct and indirect control with no problems, and no noticeable snivel.

    Note that in this discussion: "Snivel" is relative, and I'm describing only my personal experiences on the specific canopies I have jumped. I highly recommend figuring this out gradually for your specific setup, by starting with both kinds of control, and making adjustments based on what the openings are like for you, on your gear.


    --Tom Aiello
    tbaiello@mac.com

  4. #4
    Fork And Spoon Operator ZegeunerLeben's Avatar
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    RE: Packing question


    >>Okay so I will never free-stow the tail pocket on sldr up packs again, that sounds like a bad idea. And my velcro is worn but that will be sorted out right now. As far as how big of a bite of slider to take, in a situation where you have a safer object w/ limited strike potential and a huge wide open landing area you can generally take a bigger bite of slider vs a wall or B where you absolutely must open low? I'll do some digging and see what CR reccomends but off the top of my head I'm thinking 6" single locking stow w/ 1" bite of slider for starters.

  5. #5
    imported_Tom Aiello
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    RE: Packing question

    >I'm thinking 6" single locking stow

    By this do you mean 6" of line in the bight, or a 6" long bight (i.e. 12" of line)?

    A 3" bight (6" of line) sounds pretty good as a starting point.

    --Tom Aiello
    tbaiello@mac.com

  6. #6
    Fork And Spoon Operator ZegeunerLeben's Avatar
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    RE: Packing question


    >>I meant 6" of line in the bite total, 3 up 3 down. Thanks for the info Tom I don't like to hassle the local jumpers I know with constant questions

  7. #7
    Fork And Spoon Operator ZegeunerLeben's Avatar
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    Packing question


    >>I was watching my buddy pack for a slider up jump, and I noticed he did some things I'd never seen before. As he was stowing his lines, I saw him make a 6" single stow w/ rubber band, and set the stow between the tail pocket and the canopy, where as I was taught to free stow the tail pocket and lay the folded lines in the top of the pocket, and then shingle. I've also heard of jumpers making a stow(s) of slider in a rubber band. How much slider should you grab with this technuiqe and why? What differences do these choices make during deployment? Thanks to anyone willing to answer my barrage of questions

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