Loop release/emergency pack opener?

[434]

Look at the tread at basejumper, and contribute with your own thoughts about the weekest point? The pilot chute and not the jumper!

http://basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/...=unread#unread

[hamsandwich]

Every scenario you described is caused by user error / poor rigging. To many that's not a problem that should be fixed by a more complex system.


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[434]

Every scenario you described is caused by user error / poor rigging. To many that's not a problem that should be fixed by a more complex system.


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Sometime it is shit happens to! I dont see any complex system in this, it is just the same you have trained in skydiving pulling your reserve handle! Is that so difficult if you have a pilot chute knot?

[Johnny Utah]

Look at the tread at basejumper, and contribute with your own thoughts about the weekest point? The pilot chute and not the jumper!

http://basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/...=unread#unread

Hi Paul,

Can you please post the topic here. I'd be happy to give my opinion on it, not that it would be of any worth to anyone.

Please understand that many jumpers don't go to Tom's site because he has mistreated so many jumpers for so long. I personally was banned 3 times from Tom's site and never once broke a forum rule there. He simply censors and bans jumpers that he doesn't like and Tom has shown himself to be bitterly jealous of certain talented jumpers as in the case of Miles, JT and Shane for example.

Some of us don't want our online experience to be bottled up by the moods and whims of the BASE Fake Aiello. As far as I know I may still be banned since the last time I posted on Tomdotcom. I was perma-banned because I disagreed with Tom on a technical subject. Tom doesn't like to appear as not knowing everything about BASE and when someone points out how Tom is wrong on a subject, Tom gets mad.

But hey, that forum gets a lot more skydiver traffic than this site so.....

[434]

I guess you still can look at the tread over there, and give your thoughts here! I just want the jumpers to give some thoughts about the weekest point of the equipment especially when it comes to wingsuitjumping!

[airdog07]

abby finally you sound like you know what your talking abut .........
if you make thing more complected your going to have more problem than it solve, spring pilot chute do hesitate just much as regular pilot chute and more bulk add to container, one thing the shrivel flaps for PC need reinventing I think with some thing that need less pressure ?. If you make gear that is full proof some one will come and prove that it's not, need to take time to pack you gear, get gear check and check other's no matter he has 2 jump or 5000 jump,
you can do every thing correct and still thing can go wrong.
in the airline the old saying "thing happen in three's"

[434]

Who was saying it would complicate anything! It is just a container opener, nothing else!

1. A handle placed at same spot as an reserve handle!
2. A Cable routed like an reserve cable!
3. A pin covered in a small plastic box securing the loop from falling out!
4. Or a knife in a plastic box ready to cut loop!

Scenario!
You have a pilot chute error/delay

1. You feel after one second there is something wrong
2. You pull the handle like any reserve handle!
3. Loop is free/cut
4. container is open
5. Shake the pack job out!


Anyone else who can think of some other solution? I dont want to hear it is not possible, it is going to make more problems! Think positive and be creative!

[lifewithoutanet]

Saw the thread over on the other site, specifically the points on magnets in lieu of velcro. One concern of entanglement that I don't always see raised is the addition of mass along the bridle. Magnets will certainly factor in. I don't think they'll have that much impact on the bridle once the PC is fully inflated, but leading up to that, I can see problems w/ a slack bridle and a hunk of mass.
-C.

[hamsandwich]

Who was saying it would complicate anything! It is just a container opener, nothing else!

1. A handle placed at same spot as an reserve handle!
2. A Cable routed like an reserve cable!
3. A pin covered in a small plastic box securing the loop from falling out!
4. Or a knife in a plastic box ready to cut loop!

Scenario!
You have a pilot chute error/delay

1. You feel after one second there is something wrong
2. You pull the handle like any reserve handle!
3. Loop is free/cut
4. container is open
5. Shake the pack job out!


Anyone else who can think of some other solution? I dont want to hear it is not possible, it is going to make more problems! Think positive and be creative!

Don't take my post hostily, I just think that there is a higher chance of a premature or a problem with the system than exists the chance of a problem with a two pin rig. If you're not proficient at packing your rig and keeping a somewhat consistent tension then buy a velcro rig, http://www.asylumbase.com/perigeeII.htm.

You're loop could be released early and now you have a horseshoe, next to a cliff wall. Maybe you're proximity flying. now you're spraypainting the wall with your poop and blood.

So here's my thoughts anyway if you want to try it. Maybe some of this is good for your testing?

-Don't use a knife or cutting system for the loop. Knives near parachutes is a bad idea. You won't be able to plan for every possibility.

-look at the WLO toggles that Apex is making. The latest version work pretty well. the pin would just route to a handle instead.

-just the bottom loop would be sufficient. Once pressure is released there the top pin will come out easier.

-the way we most pack, it will be difficult to put the loop onto the backpad of the container. i'd run a long straight pin on the underside of the bottom flap and then have it run outside the flap to a hard housing thats then channeled under another strip of cordura so not a snag point and route to the side you want. maybe up along the lateral to mlw and then pull up instead of down? hard to route from the bottom pin up over the should and then to MLW.

-use bungee/safety stow as the loop to there always tension as well as give. BTW- if you just use bungee loops and nothing else, you may find that's all you need to feel more comfortable about possible pc in tows.

-Have you seen the size of a pilot chute spring? Do you realize the size of spring you need to push the entire pack job out? Just use a 2 parachute system if you're at the point of needing a spring to push your whole pack job out, 'just in case'.

i hope thats positive and constructive. somwhere in this rambling theres something dumb i didnt think of though.

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[Weightless]

just some random thinking,

What if there was a cutter similar to a cypres unit on each closing loop sitting behind a cover or flap. Wired to a battery in your leg strap / "emergency handle" depending on the size of the battery. Activated by a pressure switch in an emergency handle and a switch to prevent any accidental firings.

This would be a final emergency device, small and simple and with low maintenance. It would also force jumpers to use it in a last case scenario without getting reliant or complacent on a pin style system as cutting the closing loops would require a trip to your local rigger.

What is everyones thoughts?

[lifewithoutanet]

just some random thinking,

What if there was a cutter similar to a cypres unit on each closing loop sitting behind a cover or flap. Wired to a battery in your leg strap / "emergency handle" depending on the size of the battery. Activated by a pressure switch in an emergency handle.

This would be a final emergency device, small and simple and with low maintenance. It would also force jumpers to use it in a last case scenario without getting reliant or complacent on a pin style system as cutting the closing loops would require a trip to your local rigger.

What is everyones thoughts?

So, now you have a battery, a razor. It's not like a Cypress, that is a Cypress, albeit one w/ a manual switch... Sounds like COMPLEXITY to me. This is not skydiving.

-C.

[Weightless]

I can see what your saying, accidental firings, horse shoe malfunctions etc etc. Personally i don't believe in fixing the problem rather fixing what caused the problem.

Just an idea for the people who were looking for a system of freeing their closing loops in an emergency.

[stitch]

If this loop release system arguement is directed at a recent incident, then all I could have seen it do was create a massive horseshoe.

A one handed AFF-style BOC/ROL release would be the more logical option.

[Weightless]

Previous incidents like this come to mind.

BASE Jumping Forums: BASE Jumping: General BASE: Wingsuit deployment problems

The problem lies in picking the type of malfunction to use any system as releasing the loops with any system in the wrong situation could cause a massive malfunction.

[stitch]

just the bottom loop would be sufficient. Once pressure is released there the top pin will come out easier.

That isn't absolutely true. Young Jarrett from Washington demonstrated through a series of photos, that the top loop could hang-up in a full head-down position.