Any word as to how Vented Pilot Chutes (like CR is developing) are working in the field ? I'm considering one,,just sounds kinda Scary having a hole in the top ! Any Imput would be helpful. Thank you;-)
Any word as to how Vented Pilot Chutes (like CR is developing) are working in the field ? I'm considering one,,just sounds kinda Scary having a hole in the top ! Any Imput would be helpful. Thank you;-)
I don't jump any unvented pilot chutes anymore, unless it is an object where an off-heading just doesn't matter that much (Perrine, for example). I've seen enough video of PC oscillation, and had enough jumps on vented PCs (75 or so) to both see and feel the positive difference venting makes.
There aren't many things in BASE that I personally consider essential for safe jumping of routine objects (tailgate slider down, Big Grab toggles, exposed center cell, properly set deep brakes, etc.), but a vented PC is now one of them.
Peace,
D-d0g
ddog@wrinko.com
www.wrinko.com
D-Dog,
I use one vented PC currently, a 46 from CR. I have used it as low as 325' (I know, not really low by y'alls standards) and have no problems. HOWEVER I had a friend go off a B in front of me and towed a 42" vented pc for almost 4 seconds(on video), He said he noticed it a little, but after watching all the video he opens noticebly lower than the others jumpers on the load. So I ask you, ever had any hesitations?? I would HAVE to believe that in theory, a vented PC would take longer to inflate, thus delaying the opening sequence. Just trying to gather some more info on these things, as I would like to replace all my PC's with vented ones one day...
Also, isn't it funny how non-believers are so quick to shout BLACK DEATH!!! freaks
c-ya
Red:P
No response? Confirms the fact that I think your full of #####.
Let's see:
Let's assume your friend took a 2 second delay and then towed the PC for 4 seconds as you say. For him to survive, it must have been a building that had a minimum height of 850 to 900ft. Hmmm....
If he was slider down, that would have hurt like hell and surely done damage to his equipment or his skeletal and muscle structure.
If he was slider-up, why was he taking a 2 second delay slider up from a really high building.
Just a guess here, but your full of crap.
Go somewhere else troll!
>No response? Confirms the fact that I think
>your full of #####.
When I read the original post I was as curious as you were, and your analysis seems accurate enough to me. HOWEVER, you should understand that not everybody lives on the left coast of the United States. Your posts came at 4:00 and 8:00 Atlantic time -- even assuming everybody checks the BASE board at work (which they don't), not everybody will have seen one before they see both.
My bad... Posted too early in the morning and got the times all fu(ked up. Nevertheless, no response in 16 hours hardly shows the guy was trolling. I would like to hear more about the jump in question, though...
Your right Jason -- I was jumping to conclusions pretty fast there. I just get aggravated by all the people on here that try to slam manufacturers and their products without any real evidence or relevant feedback to back it up.
On a seperate note, but somewhat along the same lines:
I can't believe the wave of new jumpers that are just convinced they know things that aren't even statistically possible. For example, I met someone the other day that is abosolutely convinced that you can take a solid 5 second delay at the Perrine with a round and still open at a safe height. The guy had 18 BASE jumps, zero round parachute jumps, and no idea how to configure a round parachute for a BASE jump. He had simply put the rig together at Eloy and the guy who taught him how to BASE jump (who has 34 jumps himself) told him he could safely take a 5 second delay at the Perrine with a round.
I told the guy that a 5 second delay was likely to split his ##### 15 inches wide. Luckily this spooked him enough to back off from the jump. Good thing, because it turned out that he had a full diaper on the round, no rubber-band on the apex, etc.
I just don't understand the wave of jumpers who have no clue about what they are doing and the increasing number of 30 jump wonders out there teaching people to BASE jump.
Ok, enough ranting and getting off subject. I'll go take my medication and await a response about this 4 second PC hesitation from a building.
C-ya!
>HOWEVER I had a friend go off a B in front of me
>and towed a 42" vented pc for almost 4
>seconds(on video), He said he noticed it a
>little, [...]
This strikes me as more than a bit odd, too... After two seconds of PC hesitation I imagine I'd be shitting bricks. After four seconds I would hope to have been reaching back to figure out what the hell's going on for at least two seconds. "He noticed it a little" makes me wonder if WGH might be on the right track with his "trolling" comment.
More information would be excellent.
To what degree would you say is the difference in on-heading performance? 75 jumps would be a good sample size for statistical comparison. For example, how many off-heading openings worse than 45, 60, 90 degrees if any...?
I use a non-vented zero-p 48" PC for the low stuff. Would you use a vented PC on 200-foot freefalls, or would you still use non-vented?
Michael
I switch to non-vented PC's around 250', depending on object type and landing area.
I think a vented PC is more likely to hesitate at zero airspeed (and possible slightly more likely to hesitate overall--so I won't use one on low pulls, etiher).
--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com
That's what I was thinking... Thanks, Tom!
Michael
Woah now - I'm far from an expert on vented PCs. I think all the real experts are out jumping, and this poor old Dog is stuck at home working. Boo hoo!
Anyway, some answers based on my experience:
1. I have one of the vented 46 CRs, and frankly I think the vent is way too big. I call it the "scary chute" because it does open slower than a usual 46, more like a 43 or so based on my gut. I heard a rumor that they have made the vent smaller on new model CR 46 PCs, but not sure. I still jump it (regularly of a 330 foot to impact B, no problem), just not someplace where I need super-fast opening. See below.
2. Regarding hessies in general, it's all about vent size. A huge vent will result in a slower opening, of course. However, I have 40+ jumps on a custom vented 42 PC (the "Soft Cock special") and there is, I think, a tiny but irrelevant difference in opening speed versus a non-vented 42. I regularly take it very deep slider down and do not hesitate (pun intended) to do so. If the vent is big enough to really cause hessies, then I personally believe it is just overdone. A properly-vented 46 should open. . . ooooh. . . sort of like an unvented 45 at appropriate airspeeds.
3. And, no, I don't jump vented stuff on really low objects (less than 200 feet) - but I rarely freefall this stuff with my big, fat, broken-up ass anyway. I don't think oscillation is much of an issue with these really low objects, but then again jumping big unvented PCs even at low airspeed with a hard sideways throw (instead of the more correct "out and up" throw) could cause at least a partial oscillation cycle and off-heading. And off-headings below 200 feet with hard objects behind you are no fun!
3(b). I don't know this for sure, but my gut is that even a small vent on a 48 or 50 inch PC for low, heading-dependent freefalls could help and not really slow down opening noticeably. I have NOT tested anything like this, so this is just my horse (err, dog) sense. Your mileage may vary; some assembly required.
3(c). For the sake of clarity, I also still jump unvented PCs when PCA/static line jumps are in order.
4. Regarding heading performance overall with vented PCs, my dear readers must keep in mind that the Dog is well-known for his more-than-occasional, flailing, head-down exits. I consider them a sub-specialtiy of BASE acrobatics, really. Anyway, I've had. . . hmmm. . . two openings with a greater than 100 degree off-heading since I started jumping vented PCs about 80 jumps ago. Both of those, I think, were primarily if not fully caused by flailing, head-down, rolling-up-the-windows body position at deployment.
4(b). Other than that, I've had the occasional 30-40 with vented PCs which I think are statistically just part of the game. Save for the two openings listed above, and a few random Perrine openings with slam-packed canopies and stuff, my headings have beein within about 35 degrees either direction (slider up and slider down). I do NOT believe that my findings in themselves are statistically significant - there are so many variables that affect opening accuracy, and PC oscillation is only one. It would take hundreds - or thousands - of jumps with all other variables systematically controlled to really say that vented PCs were proven +-95% accuracy to lower off-heading probabilities meaningfully.
5. We did some fun experimentation while on the boat at the Perrine, holding out vented and non-vented PCs into the 10-15mph windstream and seeing how they behave. That would convince anyone, I think - unvented PCs hop about quite a bit, and properly-vented PCs are almost rock stable.
I do find it funny that, in terms of modern BASE gear, we seem to be paying lots extra to have HOLES in our gear. Vents. . . valves. . . bottom skin venting. . . I always thought I was trashing my gear when I ripped it out of the brambles, now I look on those scars as "next-generation canopy venting technology!"
Peace,
D-d0g
ddog@wrinko.com
www.wrinko.com
>2. Regarding hessies in general, it's all about
>vent size. A huge vent will result in a slower
>opening, of course. However, I have 40+ jumps on
>a custom vented 42 PC (the "Soft Cock special")
>and there is, I think, a tiny but irrelevant
>difference in opening speed versus a non-vented
>42.
I think that PC vent location is also likely to be an important consideration. Did Ray build that PC with the vents in the standard (apex) locations?
--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com
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