slider down

[guest]

Hey, I have a question:

What are people doing to SLOW DOWN slider down openings? (besides putting the slider up, before anyone can say it)

I am still hurting from a friggin whacker last weekend. I have been told that my canopy seems to open harder than normal (I have nothing to compare it to), and am sorta starting to believe it. It doesn't matter if I am head high, level, or a bit head low at pull, they just friggin hurt.

Anyway, what can I do? I have thought about doing a triple stow on the primary (locking) stow. Or maybe for some weird ass reason, making the thing looser would work? Messing with the nose, like not pulling the center cell around the pack job at all. Tighter or looser on the tailgate?

Anybody got any ideas? I don't care if the friggin thing does two complete 360s and a McConkey before it's done opening, so long as it is a little bit softer.

Or is it just that I am a total vagina now that I have like 3000 jumps on the same Stilleto120 and I need to get hard.

Thanks for any input, folks.

[d-dog]

Three words: harden up tiger!

Seriously, I feel your pain. Primary stows scare me so I can't provide any advice on them. I do personally take a tighter tailgate, but there's a point of diminishing returns where a too tight tailgate just causes a really scary snivel followed by a hard "opening" once it finally pops. Could also kill you if it somehow stayed locked all the way in.

For me, the biggest thing I notice is that canopies packed for a while (in my book, more than 5 days or so) open noticeably softer than just-packed rigs. I've heard lucid theories on this, but who cares about the theory? Pack those rigs and let 'em season for a bit.

Also, of course, a more clapped-out canopy will generally open softer I think. Brand new ones act like ZP and tend to hammer.

Finally, many folks think vented canopes open harder, ceteris paribus, between 2 and 4 seconds than their unvented counterparts. Some people disagree, but how many of them are regularly riding vented canopies to 4 seconds slider down?

Someone more experienced than I should answer this question anyway, so forget everything I said above.

Peace,

D-dog
ddog@wrinko.com
www.wrinko.com

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>For me, the biggest thing I notice is that
>canopies packed for a while (in my book, more
>than 5 days or so) open noticeably softer than
>just-packed rigs. I've heard lucid theories on
>this, but who cares about the theory? Pack those
>rigs and let 'em season for a bit.

I heard there was a military study on square reserves a while back that came to the exact opposite conclusion (that a canopy left packed opened faster). Is that just an urban legend, or does anyone know for sure?

>Also, of course, a more clapped-out canopy will
>generally open softer I think. Brand new ones
>act like ZP and tend to hammer.

Here I go again, disagreeing.

I have a very, very old canopy (think 3000+ jumps--and no, no one ever ought to BASE jump with dodgy gear like that) that tends to slam open for some reason (other than it's cutting edge 1980's technology--I've compared it to other not so worn, but equally vintage--in fact identical--models). I theorize that the F111 wear pattern was somehow assymetric, leading to cracking openings (I'm pretty sure it has to be the fabric, as I've replaced darn near everything else on the canopy). Obviously, I don't jump it unless I'm willing to accept a hard opening (and I'm landing in salt water, generally). Still my experience tends to contradict your conventional wisdom.

I'm with you on brand spanking new gear (less than 20 jumps), though. I think those probably do open a bit harder, and generally fly better, as they are more "like" ZP.

>Finally, many folks think vented canopies open
>harder, ceteris paribus, between 2 and 4 seconds
>than their unvented counterparts. Some people
>disagree, but how many of them are regularly
>riding vented canopies to 4 seconds slider down?

I agree. Four seconds on a Blackjack with the ZP foreskin is just about enough to break my neck. I've had slider UP openings at four seconds that experienced observers commented "looked like slider down openings".

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[d-dog]

>I heard there was a military study on square
>reserves a while back that came to the exact
>opposite conclusion (that a canopy left packed
>opened faster). Is that just an urban legend,
>or does anyone know for sure?

For me, it's from personal experience. Mostly my rigs are unpacked in a day or two. The dozen or so times I've had one packed longer this winter, and then taken it 3-4 slider down, I was pleasantly surprised at the (relative) lack of spank. I then asked an experienced jumper about it and he agreed that it was "common wisdom" with which he agreed.

As I understand it, the theory is that a recently-packed rig has more trapped air in it, and thus pressurizes faster since the air during deployment has plenty of nooks and crannies into which it can quickly flow.

In contrast, a rig left packed in the trunk for a week or two has seen most of the air in the F-111 canopy slowly get pushed out through squeezing from the packjob and the weight of gravity settling the rig over time. It's certainly true that long-packed canopies are smaller and float around more in the container.

I've even heard that some jumpers will pack a rig immediately before a super low freefall to maximize opening speed. Pretty cool trick - gotta hand it to those Aussies.

Anyway, I know that from my own experience I'd be real hesitant to take a rig that had been sitting in my trunk for a while and jump something super low. I mean, I visualize the canopy hitting line stretch and just sort of hanging there for a few moments before even the bottomskin does much pressurizing, let alone air flowing in the nose.

I'd not expect the same with a ZP canopy, but since I've never actually jumped a ZP canopy what the heck do I know?

My theory on your clapped out canopy opening hard is that it has a slightly different geometry even than another "identical" canopy. The subtle nudge of geometry could just set it up to be a hard opening canopy due to some weird, non-linear aspect of fluid dynamics (sort of like a self-organizing criticality of sorts, if you are familiar with that mathematical literature).

My point is that, over time, one would expect it to open less hard as it gets more clapped out. However, a hard opening canopy will probably not become a softie just because you jump it a few hundred times. There just seem to be some canopies that open hard, even compared to identical twin brothers. Who knows - maybe somebody put bad voodoo on them at the factory?

Peace,

D-d0g
ddog@wrinko.com
www.wrinko.com

[guest]

I had to agree with D-dog, canopies that have been packed and stored, gives better and softer openings. I do leave my packed gear for 14 days +, becouse of work, and in my opinion gets softer openings. I had hard openings on my first 5 jumps on a mojo 240, but after that it got softer. Just hard'n up and forget the soft stilletto openings. 4 sec? = hard openings :'(

[guest]

i regularly take 10 sec slider down on my mojo 240 with no problems.

[guest]

Good for you, I am just a chicken and do not go more than 3 sec...... or pull the slider up.

[guest]

no slider up jumps?...all your delays are 4 sec. or less?:-(

[imported_Tom Aiello]

Yeah, but what if some guy sold you an ancient PD235 as your first canopy?

What kind of delay could you get slider down then?

[guest]

plus I once shot some guy on the ground with a rifle while i was in the middle of a 5 second delay

[crwper]

>I heard there was a military study on square
>reserves a while back that came to the exact
>opposite conclusion (that a canopy left packed
>opened faster). Is that just an urban legend,
>or does anyone know for sure?

I know, the thread's kind of old, but I'll resurrect it anyway. I think the study you are referring to is referenced in Poynter's Manuals or something. It actually found that canopies which have been packed for longer open slower, but not by much. Most of the "slowing" occurs in the first few days, then after that it sort of plateaus.

Michael

[imported_Tom Aiello]

I'd try rolling the nose (especially where heading is less important, and you're doing a lot of jumps--like Idaho). I've never really had that problem, but I did have a friend who had good luck fixing his consistent slammers by rolling the nose.

In my experience, a major contributer to hard openings is wing loading. What size is your hard opening canopy? And how are you loading it?

There's also the Frappucino approach--wear a neck brace. Looks silly, but I hear it works.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[guest]

Where are you?

Yexotay

[guest]

Hey, do any of the manufacturers have any input on this subject? Yall will definitely have the beta...

[Tree]

CR reccomends micro-reefing the tail to increase the chance of a nose first inflation. If the tail gets inflated first it does seem to "slam" much harder than if the nose inflates first. Basically you just put extra folds in the tail and c-d flake. Also, when you cocoon with the top skin of the center cell, tuck it in between the b-c and c-d flake nice and tight. All of this is supposed to make the nose start inflating before the tail, and it does seem to make the openings a little nicer.

Trash packing seems to work too.

Tree ;-)