Taking Pin Rig Low?

[freakboy]

What's the lowest anyone has taken a 2-pin rig(freefall)?Personally I've taken my Gargoyle off 260 and 240 hand held.I want to freefall 216 cliff with it.Any feedback?:o

[crwper]

587 and I have been doing some freefalls from a 210-foot span. I believe he was using his pin rig, and I know I was using my Velcro, both with a 48-inch zero-p pilot chute. The two seemed to be open in about the same place on our 2-ways.

Michael

P.S. I should add, we're both jumping v-tec canopies, he was jumping his Vertex and I was jumping my Reactor 4.

P.P.S. IIRC, one of the big factors with pin rigs is consistency. If you've got your pack job dialed in, and the pin pressure is low, then it will probably open faster than a velcro rig. If you're not so consistent with your packing, well, good luck! ;-)

[imported_Tom Aiello]

I've taken a Prism/Vtec combo below 200 ft a couple of times.

As long as the pin tension is consistent (check it AFTER you put on the rig), it should be no problem. I generally prefer pins to velcro at ultra low altitudes.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[guest]

I've freefell my bad-ass warlock off a 210' span with a non-vented canopy. Open in plenty of time to unstow toggles and flare.

[guest]

I love my Warlock. I will admit to not taking it too low (low 300's), but primarily because I was jumping a skydiving canopy. With the recent purchase of a base-specific canopy I will be moving into the lower freefalls, now.

One question I do have is: at what point do you guys begin to untuck the tuck flaps on these pin rigs? I must say that I readily untuck mine for the lower stuff. Just curious as I haven't really seen any opinion on it and nobody I know locally jumps a pin rig.

Thank You.

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>One question I do have is: at what point do you
>guys begin to untuck the tuck flaps on these pin
>rigs

Actually, I think many people could get into trouble on this issue, because deciding when to untuck the flap depends entirely on which rig you jump.

A rig with a very stiff wrap around cover (i.e. Perigee Pro) has the greatest chance for hesitation at low airspeeds (hence the manufacturer's recommendation to untuck the flap at low altitude).

A rig with no stiffener in the wrap around cover (i.e. Warlock) probably contributes least to hesitation at low airspeed.

My personal mental chart for untucking the flap goes something like this:

Perigee Pro: 300+ ft.
Warlock/Vertex: 250 ft.
Prism (bridle control flap): 200 ft.
Prism (pin cover flap): never
Odyssey FX: never
Gargoyle: NEVER

My experience with the Warlock and Vertex are very limited (single digit jumps on each), so I may be overly conservative there.

The construction of the Gargoyle (flap tucks across, rather than around) is such that you never need to untuck the flap--it will not cause a hesitation. In fact, leaving the flap untucked might (combined with a 1 in 1000 deployment instability) actually cause a hesitation.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[crwper]

I'm curious, Tom, what factors would contribute in your choice not to untuck the flap. I realize there are some pin protection issues. Anything else?

Michael

[imported_Tom Aiello]

I'm not sure I follow your question.

I prefer to leave the flap tucked whenever possible, as it provides better pin protection.

At ultra low altitudes, I have some concerns that the flap can cause PC hesitations on some rigs. On other rigs, I don't have those concerns, so I don't untuck the flap.

Basically, I leave the flap tucked unless I can come up with a good reason to untuck it.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[guest]

I regularly freefall my prism/unvented fox from a 196ft cliff over hard earth.
IMHO assuming you have your P/C fold and pitch sorted, and assuming your pack job is not ridiculously tight, the opening of a (single) pin rig is binary ie it opens instantaneously at bridle stretch. Velcro rigs open gradually over a (short) period of time. My observance is that pin opens noticeably higher than velcro all other factors being the same.

[guest]

for one of you idiots to have a lineover freefalling that altitude over "hard earth." When the statistics catch up with you, I hope you looked cool doing it.

[guest]

In this sport the statistics can catch up with you no matter what you're doing. How many people say the exact same thing about jumping from any altitude. Sure freefalling the low and sub 200's is pushing it but this sport is about personal freedom and although I won't do it I understand thats someones own choice. I'm sure, or at least hope, all those who do it think it over thoroughly and accept the possible ramifications of thier decisions. Instead of saying you can't wait for thier demise how about just saying be safe. And if your doing it to look cool for others you in this sport for all the wrong reasons.
Take care,
Gabe

[freakboy]

Gabe were you out at the Perrine or Moab over Labor Day last year?Or maybe at the Vertigo boogie?

[guest]

Yeah I was at both twin falls and moab last labor day (2 days TF 1 moab) and at the thanksgiving boogie.
Later
Gabe

[freakboy]

Gabe I was one of the guys from Indy.The tatooed and pierced one.Nice hearing from you.

[guest]

I was there too. You were also at the Skydive Indiana boogie that we were at a few years back.