PIn at Low jumps

[Steve]

Hi,
JUst received my Perigee Pro and i was asking my self a question: Do i have to let the first flap open for low jumps ? Or can he be closed ? I ask myself if it really makes difference...Any suggestions in the room ?

Safe jumps
Steve

[guest]

Hi,

CR doesn't recommend using the Pro for the lowest stuff (under 3sec) - That's why the BOC is smaller than on the Classic and II, it won't fit the 46" PC properly. I guess you can jump under 3sec delays, and everything works just fine - if everything goes as planned. If the loops aren't too short - the pull force would be smaller than on a velcro closed rig. And regarding the pin protection flap - I'd keep it closed, I think it'll help the bridle pull the pins in the correct direction. As soon as the pins are pulled, this flap has no function, and won't make it harder to open the container. This is just my opinion, I suggest you email CR and ask what they say. Personally I've got a Perigee Classic for jumping the low stuff, and a Pro when I'm jumping these nice cliffs here in Norway :-)

JF

[web]

Adam told me to leave it closed. the 42"pc works great with at least 2sec delay...otherwise you just tow it along for another sec until you build enough airspeed to pull the pins. if you're going pc-in-hand (not recommended by CR), use EXTREME caution in getting your bridle stow right and avoiding snags lest you open the container prematurely. if the deployed bridle is too short, goes the long way around your elbow, or hangs on something at the exit point you'll end up with your canopy on your heels instead of in the container where it belongs. oversize mesh sliders rule!

http://www.geocities.com/webbslingr/

[Steve]

>Adam told me to leave it
>closed. the 42"pc works
>great with at least 2sec
>delay...otherwise you just tow it
>along for another sec until
>you build enough airspeed to
>pull the pins. if
>you're going pc-in-hand (not recommended
>by CR), use EXTREME caution
>in getting your bridle stow
>right and avoiding snags lest
>you open the container prematurely.
> if the deployed bridle
>is too short, goes the
>long way around your elbow,
>or hangs on something at
>the exit point you'll end
>up with your canopy on
>your heels instead of in
>the container where it belongs.
> oversize mesh sliders rule!
>
>
>http://www.geocities.com/webbslingr/

Hi,

THanks for the answer but guys, i am not totally agree with you. Youi really have to tested by yourself( i did it). Just take the bridle of the Pro and pull on it just very easy you will see it's coming free MUCH easier then a Velcro!!

Just tested it and you will see. i think all this question of pin or velcro, is a pschycologic question...

base
steve

[guest]

The fact is that a pin closed rig like the Pro is a more complex system than a velcro closed rig. As long as you're aware of this, and make sure you know that there's more that can go wrong with this rig than a velcro rig - go ahead. If you read your packing instruction for the Perigee Pro, Adam says that the pin closed rig is not designed to replace the velcro rig, but to complement it. Meaning the pin rig is better suited for long delays and aerobatics, because of the risk of a premature opening of the velcro closed container due to airflows and/or worn velcro. So if the majority of your jumps will be low altitude jumps, then you've bought the wrong rig in my opinion. But hey that's just me.

Play safe
JF

[guest]

Hi,

Why you just pull on the pins by yourself and on the velcro, just very easie with less forces, u can feel it then, really.
They are some experencied base-jumpers here with more then 150 jumps only on low altitudes(onder150 meters) and jumps always the Pro...?
Of course it's designed for high altitudes and acrobatics but it's for sure it's not going slower open.just check on tapes or by yourself...
The lowest jump with the Pro over here was 75 meters and everything went cool, just like a velcro. I think the difference is in our mind...but yes, we can stay longtime like this talking about that...the most important is to be and to STAY safe.

Have fun !
c-ya

[web]

and how many jumps have you put on this rig?

ignore cautions extended by a voice of experience at your own peril.

[guest]

>>Adam told me to leave it
>>closed. the 42"pc works
>>great with at least 2sec
>>delay...otherwise you just tow it
>>along for another sec until
>>you build enough airspeed to
>>pull the pins. if
>>you're going pc-in-hand (not recommended
>>by CR), use EXTREME caution
>>in getting your bridle stow
>>right and avoiding snags lest
>>you open the container prematurely.
>> if the deployed bridle
>>is too short, goes the
>>long way around your elbow,
>>or hangs on something at
>>the exit point you'll end
>>up with your canopy on
>>your heels instead of in
>>the container where it belongs.
>> oversize mesh sliders rule!
>>
>>
>>http://www.geocities.com/webbslingr/
>
>Hi,
>
>THanks for the answer but guys,
>i am not totally agree
>with you. Youi really have
>to tested by yourself( i
>did it). Just take the
>bridle of the Pro and
>pull on it just very
>easy you will see it's
>coming free MUCH easier then
>a Velcro!!
>
>Just tested it and you will
>see. i think all this
>question of pin or velcro,
>is a pschycologic question...
>
>base
>steve

But doesn't the loop length make all this difference? An inch longer, and you are right. An inch shorter and pull force might be X times higher?

On a velcro rig loop length is just NOT a factor and therefore something that cannot be fucked up.

The more things you have to think about, the more things that can be done wrong...

Don't understand me wrong, I am not against pin-rigs, but I am not always proponent of them either.

Stay safe,
c-ya,
Robert

[web]

first, recognize that the container is built towards a target volume and that's going to limit how far you can adjust the loop lengths and still have everything close up nicely. loop adjustments are made in millimeters. start long and gradually shorten them until you achieve a clean-looking closure with matched pin forces around an orderly, compact pack-job. it took a couple of pack-jobs when my rig was new, but this approach set it up to perform in line with the delay/pc-size chart and i haven't moved the loops in months. always jumping the same canopy and consistent packing technique keep the deployments predictable. if the object demands less than 2sec delay, i guess i'll either be looking for a bigger pc and a way to carry it to the exit point (the pocket is kinda small) and/or a velcro rig.
velcro is easier to adjust for lighter pulls at lower speeds, but i prefer the security of pins when scrambling around/over/under/up whatever obstacles lie between me and blessed flight.

[guest]

Hi,

Guys weekend was great, made my first jumps !!
Now, i was wit 2 friends who had abought a velcro rig. With look after on slowmotion on digital video and know what on 2 jumps the opoening was the same and on the one of 85 meters pin was 0.20 sec. faster, so i think there is alot to think and to SEE about.

Web and Rob thanks dudes
c-ya

[web]

85m is lower than i've been....how much pc/delay did you use?

[bps]

Hi Steve -

Sounds like you had a great weekend! Around here, it has been raining alot lately and jumps (at least dry ones) are hard to come by.

I also believe that a properly rigged pin rig will open slightly fater than a velcro-rig -- but only slightly.

I think that some of the warnings directed toward pin-closed rigs are based on the fact that pin rigs are inherently more complex than velcro rigs. Bridle misrouting, closing loop maintenance, grommets, pin attachment to the bridle...all these things add up. Yes, all of these things are easy to maintain, but it adds complexity to the system and complexity adds problems when you look at the larger picture.

With a velcro rig - it's going to open. Of course, velco closed rigs have their problems as well. Poorly maintained velcro can split open, and that could spell disaster. Most velcro rigs require that you replace the shrivel flap/velcro every 50-75 jumps.

I've got 115 jumps on a velcro rig and now I have a Perigee Pro on order. I like to look at it the way Adam does - a pin rig will be a nice compliment to my velcro rig.

I plan on using my pin rig at relatively lower altitudes - but I also must stay keen to the added complexities that come along with the pin rig. Becuase when you are low, there's no time for hiccups in the deployment sequence!

Have fun & take it low!

Bryan

[guest]

ask adam

[guest]

46 inch. web

c-ya