oops (2-18-05)

[badenhop]

http://data2.itc.nps.gov/morningreport/

[Mac]

not knowing a great deal about the NPS etc, do you think that the reports are accurate in saying that the jumpers disturbed the birds? Or was this just a way to persecute the jumpers? Do jumpers jumping this sensitive site take these things into consideration? is it a generally known way to jump these sorts of sites?

an ecologically sensitive area currently under visitor advisories for nesting prairie falcons, peregrine falcons and golden eagles
I am just wondering how to take the article, are the jumpers at fault and thus have not done the arguement that "we dont disturb the natural environment" any good, or are the rangers just finding a way to "have a go" at people they dont like?............

just curious thats all..........

[mknutson]

Pinnacles National Monument (CA)
BASE Jumping Incident

On the afternoon of Sunday, February 6th, three BASE jumps leapt
sequentially from the middle tier of Balconies Cliffs, an ecologically
sensitive area currently under visitor advisories for nesting prairie
falcons, peregrine falcons and golden eagles. The park raptor monitor
witnessed the jumps, as well as extreme disturbance to raptors in their
nesting territories as a result of the sounds and motions of the
deploying parachutes. The jumps were also seen by a ranger who was on
the Balconies Cliffs trail almost directly underneath the BASE jumpers.
The jumpers, later identified as Daren Loesch, 26, Ricardo Valbuena, 34,
and Brendan Cork, 26, were immediately apprehended at the talus base of
the Balconies Cliffs in an area closed to visitors due to revegetation
efforts. All three were issued mandatory appearance citations for air
delivery and were released after their equipment was seized as evidence.
Numerous other charges are pending. Glenn Yanagi is the case ranger.
[Submitted by Glenn Yanagi, Park Ranger]


http://data2.itc.nps.gov/morningreport/

[Nick_D]

Even during the short lived legal season of jumps in the Park in the 80s it was illegal to jump when the Perrigen Falcons were nesting.

It's nothing new . . .

NickD
BASE 194

[mknutson]

Well, would anyone out there be able to help create a document to state the typical nesting dates of the various birds in question?
Even during the short lived legal season of jumps in the Park in the 80s it was illegal to jump when the Perrigen Falcons were nesting.

It's nothing new . . .

NickD
BASE 194

[Nick_D]

Here's a start. However, I've always been suspicious that one species that flies would be all that bothered by another species that flies . . .

http://www.nps.gov/yose/news/1997/falcon97.htm

http://www.nps.gov/yose/news/2004/pere0309.htm

NickD :)
BASE 194

[Tom Aiello]

Nesting periods are usually fairly well posted in climbing areas (such as this one). Since the jumpers were fairly experienced climbers, I'd guess that they'd have known if there was a nesting restriction. I'd bet the nesting thing was thrown in afterward to increase the charges, as Mac speculated.

[mknutson]

Well, I don't know them!

And also, if they are throwing in a charge that is just for the hell of it, that is bull. If we are outside the normal nesting periods, then that could help these guys in court.


Nesting periods are usually fairly well posted in climbing areas (such as this one). Since the jumpers were fairly experienced climbers, I'd guess that they'd have known if there was a nesting restriction. I'd bet the nesting thing was thrown in afterward to increase the charges, as Mac speculated.

[Colm]

I posted some thoughts on this on DZ.com, here:

http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Related_Sports_C5/The_BASE_Zone_F22/oops_%282-18-05%29_P1489474/

To sum up, in most NPS land, nesting areas are, as a general rule, well marked. Restrictions are typically seasonal, some starting as early as December and some lasting as late as the summer. Climbers and hikers are typically also cited, when applicable, if they are caught. It may be easier to catch a highly visible parachute than a subdued-clothing wearing hiker though.

Having gone to wild nest sites, with legal permits, all I can say about disturbing the nest is that it depends greatly on the particular birds there, how accustomed they are to people, and the particular arrangement of cliff, exit point, nest, etc. A few nesting pairs have been known to tolerate an obscene amount of disturbance, whereas some will tolerate only a limited amount before abandoning. I can warn you though, from personal experience, that many species of raptor have been known to attack quite aggressively while nesting. Though I've never heard of a person under canopy being attacked, it's not at all unlikely, depending on what type of nest it is. A jumper could get injured, a bird could get injured by the lines, not a pretty picture! (I've seen a 200lb adult male get knocked out cold by a 1-lb prairie falcon--literally. fortunately he was not flying canopy :eek: )

Furthermore, if a jumper physically damages a nest site or a bird, intentionally or not, there are some pretty heavy penalties, much worse than "disturbing the wildlife"

I doubt these jumpers did any harm, but it's just part and parcel of respecting an object if you ask me.... but I'm a tree hugger.

[Colm]

Well, would anyone out there be able to help create a document to state the typical nesting dates of the various birds in question?

I can work on it... lord knows i've been sitting on my Ar$e lately. In general, seasons go from January until all the chicks are gone.... April, May, June-ish. It appears in this case, that the restriction was put in place sometime in January, and included several other cliffs in that park. It's great to learn about, but even if I thought a site was empty I'd still respect the park's closure. Both to set an example and because they might know something I don't, keeping tabs on the site constantly.

It's not really a law that parks can apply willy-nilly to people they don't like. You either have violated the protected area or you haven't. If I suggested they discriminatingly applied it against only jumpers, I'd only be speculating without any basis to back it up....

[Raymond Losli]

Hey... Avery
Remember when all of us got tickets in Washington State Parks...
for, Disturbing Sensitive wildlife. Nesting Falcons.... Trespassing on *Public Property*... Illegal take-off and landing of Aircraft.

Falcons are hardly endangered. I see them all over the place. Even nesting in down town buildings around here.
They seem to be Rugged and adapting creatures. as long as you don't.....
Keep Shoving DDT down there Throats.

When Falcons start to grow... Opposing Thumbs, Create Civilization and Rule the Earth.
That's the time I will start to consider a lesser species an... EQUAL.

...........................

My Point Being:

If they do not want you playing in there Cat Box. They will Throw Every Excuse at you.
to keep you from Threatening there little word they have created around them and
Undermining there strangle hold of Control they have Created just for ...YOU..

In my opinion the Park Services can...Kiss My Ass.
.
also:
Our... Worthless...Piece of Crap Lawyer, Rolled over on us.
.
.

[badenhop]

Hello Ray,
Yeah, I was thinking of just that when I read the morning report.
Crazy, we were just watching some video from that tour of PDX.
Some incriminating footage will be on the soon to be released

[edge]

I'm the new guy here,but it seems to me that if we want to jump legal we have to play by there rules BS or not.

[leroydb]

thing is, not jump there is legal

[edge]

OK legal in NP is what I was getting at.

[Raymond Losli]

Now that I am back reading this Thread here on an Actual BASE jumpers forum...BLINC

I think we hear are all Superior BASE jumpers in Control.... and if choose to be...
Will be Responsible BASE jumpers. or be.. Responsible for our actions.

You guys are a little bit older. A little more experienced and are above my little...
don't be a suck-ass, Cephalopod. Grow a spin and be a real BASE jumper, back to Nature talk.

So here on Blinc I feel no need to repeat my self on this subject that I just Posted on the
Identical Thread on the... Skydive - DZ.com forum.


Thank You
.
.

[stinkydragon]

So it's been almost two years and the legal situation has been resolved. Without going into specifics of the site, I had put a large amount of work into this jump. I was an active participant in the opening of the area and did a lot of old fashioned footwork there. I would like to make a few points/counter-points to all the armchair quarterbacks and ignorant critics:

1 - Time of day: tactical (for lack of a better word) and geographical constraints made a night jump a very daunting proposition. This is before you factor in a moderatly small landing area with lots of trees and large boulders that are far enough in the canyon to be out of moonlight. I wasn't happy about going before it got dark, but I didn't really like driving through Tal'Afar
on Christmas Eve either. We had taken action to mitigate the bust factor. It wasn't our day.

2 - The birds: I am not someone who would deliberitly violate an area closure in place to protect endanged species. Obviously I am not too bothered with other types of closures or I wouldn't have been there in the first place. I generally have a low opinion of people who enforce laws, rules and regulations only because they are supposed to (eg. air delivery). There were NO POSTINGS of any kind in the park any of the times I/we were there, which included several trips after our incident to photograph the lack of signage. When I paid our parking fee the day of the incident I asked the park ranger if there was anything else I needed to know. She said "no."

3 - The NPS: this is a no brainer for anyone having any dealings with park rangers. They lie. Maybe it was because this guy didn't know what he was talking about or maybe because he found himself surrounded by two fairly large and one, somewhat smaller, intense dudes in the middle of nowhere in failing light. I don't know. He laughed nervously a lot. They wanted to throw the book at us. The only thing that saved us from a much worse outcome (although it was still pretty bad) was the combination of our lawyer's actions, the court not being an NPS court and the DA being an Army JAG officer who was a little impressed with my miltary background.

It really bothered me to see how ridiculusly stupid some people's thoughts were about this. This site wasn't as bad as the other Zone, but there were quite a few people who were super opinionated about things they'd obviously never done and places they'd never seen. I am not generally a violent person, but reading some people's posts really made me want to punch them in their whiney, ignorant faces. Hard, so they fell down and bled. Again, I'm not a violent guy. The response to this incident, coupled with a few other things, led me to believe a lot of people who have no business offering their opinion on certan topics were spraying about everything. That is the main reason I have stopped visiting this site.

My lessons learned from this whole thing:

- This is not a good place to jump. For the I reasons listed and many more. The wind usually makes the cliff unjumpable. There are usually a lot of people with direct line of sight to the entire jump. There are more that I will keep to myself.

- Jump with people you trust. The guys I jumped with didn't try to go it alone or sell the rest of us out. We all hired one lawyer jointly.

- The world is full of people who think they know everything and feel a lot beter about themselves when the condemn people who embark on endeavors they can't even comprehend.

- I am not a good speller.

Don't try to contact me through this site. I won't check it. If you know me, you know me.

-Brendan

[Huck]

Yo that was a bad a s s jump and i will never forget it. Brendan, f u c k all the computer geeks that have a say on a subject they know nothing about and F U C K the NPS rangers especially that d i c k-head that busted us.

When are you back, we need to go large again, it's been too long.

Keep it real ya'll!!

[d_goldsmith]

Almost a week and no posts.

Who thinks tailgates are a waste of time? I saw a sign today that said no tailgating, and the guy looked smart. :D

[maggotrules]

dude if u think there a waste of time then dont use one please do us all a favor never use one agian. me i use one but then again I dont want to die

[d_goldsmith]

That was a joke! The no tailgating sign was at a storage shed so that people don't try to squeeze two cars through at once.

[Raymond Losli]

Q - What do you call magot when he takes, Driving & Tailgating past the normal levels of safety and comfort ???
A - Vehicular Sodomy

that was a joke too. ... ;)
.

[maggotrules]

crap so all these years when people were calling me a dumbass.
They were right
that kindda sucks
just kidding I know im idiot and I love it

[Raymond Losli]

Hey how about this One ?
Magot wearing his new, Saddam Hussein T-shirt last night on a jump !

It fit OK but was a little tight around the neck, and hangs quite well.
.

[badenhop]

Hey... Avery
Remember when all of us got tickets in Washington State Parks...


Hey... Ray
Remember when all of us got two more earth jumps that same afternoon... :cool:

[d_goldsmith]

One or both of you should make a trip up to washington again sometime. I've been lucky enough not to get any tickets yet.

[maggotrules]

Hey how about this One ?
Magot wearing his new, Saddam Hussein T-shirt last night on a jump !

It fit OK but was a little tight around the neck, and hangs quite well.
.
Saddam and I have the same birthday we also share the same love for mass murder and the destruction of intire cultures

I have to say either I'm getting soft or I'm just really hung over I just walked in from wimping out on the edge of a building. I told myself it was to windy but the fact was I didn't ant to burn one of my favorite building by jumping in the middle of the day. its probubly just the hang over. I hope im not getting soft. theres so much rapeing and pillaging to be done.

[Raymond Losli]

Hey... Ray
Remember when all of us got two more earth jumps that same afternoon... :cool:
-
Ya now I remember. those were good times then. I think we went and ran over and did Crown point, power tower or the waterfall PCA or something right after we finally pissed-off the local State parks ranger by pissing in his little sand box & piece of dirt he was in charge of watching while getting paid by the public tax dollar to do it.
That's ok though I got a dozen or so jumps off that Rock and it was for the better because there were not any good 2nd chance Outs and power lines down in the LZ anyway and a blind exit over a knob to clear. so it was just a mater of time before someone got banged up or hung up there.
It was a Cool Rock though. Slim did his thousandth off it and I showed up there one time and found a binocular strap, boot-lace & electrical tape tied together to tie a Static too. ( Dwain was there.) a day or two earlier. I soloed it there one time also.
.

[Raymond Losli]

Saddam and I have the same birthday we also share the same love for mass murder and the destruction of intire cultures

I have to say either I'm getting soft or I'm just really hung over I just walked in from wimping out on the edge of a building. I told myself it was to windy but the fact was I didn't ant to burn one of my favorite building by jumping in the middle of the day. its probubly just the hang over. I hope im not getting soft. theres so much rapeing and pillaging to be done.
-
Don't piss me off by becoming responsible.