Freefalling 200'

[imported_Tom Aiello]

In response to a posting at DZ.com:

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I have a question for all you sub 200' freefallers out there. Ais any body freefalling sub 200' with a none vented canopy? Is anybody freefalling 150" with a none vented canopy?
I am jumping an ace 240 with about 50 jumps on it and no damage. I have a 200' a that i have pca'd and static lined and am now looking to take the next step. My lowest freefall so far is 260' over a 10' satelite dish.
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--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>Is any body freefalling sub 200' with a non vented canopy?

As far as I know, no one is currently doing that on a regular basis. The record low free fall on an unvented canopy is around 170', but I believe that everyone who did that back in the day has long since gone over to using vented canopies for their low freefalls.

>Is anybody freefalling 150' with a none vented canopy?

I doubt anybody is freefalling 150' with a vented canopy--at least on a regular basis.

>I am jumping an ace 240 with about 50 jumps on it and no damage.

Does your canopy have the composite ZP topskin?

>I have a 200' a that i have pca'd and static lined and am now looking to take the next step.

I'm curious what makes you think that freefalling is the "next step"?

> My lowest freefall so far is 260'...

How much canopy time did you have on that jump?

Also, what container are you using? And what PC?

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[BasejumperJeff]

Maybe the next step is a poor choice of words.
Everytime I am at the top of this particular A tying in I always say to myself that one day I would love to freefall this. It's a beautiful freestander with a great landing area on three sides.
No, my canopy does not have the zp topskin and it's packed in an odyssey FX.
When I freefell 260' I had approx. a 6 sec. canopy ride, I had to make a turn on rear risers and lost some altitude with that.
Please do not mistaken my question as a statement on intent, I am just gathering some info and thoughts on the subject.
And I appreciate any comments people may have.

[imported_Tom Aiello]

At your level of experience (41 jumps per your DZ.com profile) I'd recommend against doing any freefall this low.

A few thoughts:

1) I'd use a vented canopy below 200'. If I didn't have a vented canopy available, I wouldn't freefall the jump. When you have modern BASE gear suitable for specific tasks, why use something that's not ideal? That would be sort of like using skydiving gear for a BASE jump.

2) What is the landing area like? If your landing area is anything other than a nice grassy field (or water) directly under the exit, I'd really reconsider. You need a vented canopy for that. The lag between bottom skin inflation (open) and full pressurization (flying) is significantly greater without secondary inlets. That means that an unvented canopy is likely to hit the ground directly under the exit before it finishes pressurizing. If that's not a good place to PLF, things could get ugly.

3) Are you sure the exit is exactly 200'? If you're getting into ultra low freefalls, every foot counts. Get in the habit of being very precise. 180' is _not_ 173 feet, and 200 feet is _not_ 192'. What did you use to measure the altitude?

4) Use a pin rig, with spectra loops for ultra low freefalls. Even a very slight PC hesitation can be very exciting at these altitudes.

5) Be certain you understand the correct PC toss for low altitude freefall. It is not the same as the "normal" PC throw.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[imported_Mac]

my thoughts (I have never gone below 200 but freefall around the 200 mark) is that if your lowest freefall is 260 then try some freefalls below this. There is a world of difference even between 260 and 220. Also your "6 secs" was this from video? as I know that sometimes what people beleive is 5 secs actually turns out to be 10!

I have had a 140 off heading with twists after a 1+ / 1.5 sec delay from 220 and beleive me it aint funny - the object was not a stick!

I have been doing all of my jumps from this alti (200+) on an unvented canopy - and I have recently bought a vented canopy as I was sick and tired of getting pounded in and jelly fishing in from low openings. I have seen lots of vented canopies on these jumps I am doing and the difference is noticable. I would never take my current canopy below 200.
As well as the canopy differences if you are thinking about approaching 200ft freefalls then there are many other issues you need to be thinking about other than whether a vented canopy v's unvented is the way to go - to be honest I beleive that question is like asking are there any people doing CRW on stilletos - yes there are people doing it, but the best tool for the job is something else.........

just my 200ft's worth.........

:+ :+

[BasejumperJeff]

I always say 200' but it's more like 210'
We used our watches to measure, on multiple occasions, and all watches show within 5 feet all the time.

I practiced my throw up toss of the pc on my last freefall,( I think that's what you mean). And will practice some more. 90% of my jumps are 300' or lower. This is what is available to me localy.

I was just curious as to what others were doing on this topic. I am aware that the vented canopies are an obvious choice for low freefall, but some consider 300' to be a low freefall and non vented canopies work fine there.

I know it's hard to get peoples opinion on these forums without getting some condesending attitudes towards goals in the sport, but everybody has to start somewhere, and asking questions is the first step, I beleive.

I would like to make my BASE carreer a long one, and I would also like to experience all that BASE has to offer.

[imported_Tom Aiello]

Apologies if I sounded condescending. That was not my intention.

Good job on seeking more information. Stay safe, and have fun.

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>I practiced my throw up toss of the pc on my last freefall,( I think that's what you mean).

You can practice the toss off a roof, or balcony, far easier. Set up some mattresses (or whatever) underneath, and use a video camera to film. When you can consistently get the PC inflated and pulling by the time it reaches the exit point, you've got the pitch down. You can keep a pull up cord in the closing loop so you don't have to reclose every time.

Once you're there, do a couple with your actual freefall rig, and be sure the pins are really pulling by the time the PC gets to the exit point (this can be a little harder, depending on what setup you are using--I had the good fortune to practice this in a university gymnasium that had a 25' drop into deep foam pits). You'll have to reclose for each practice jump, but since it's only one or two more practice jumps at this point, that's not a big deal.


--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[BasejumperJeff]

Thanks for your thoughts.
This gives me some things to think about next time I tye in at that lovely A.
I always like to keep my brain thinking.
Jeff
BASE 881

[Faber]

What Tom says...

Jeff,how many jumps do you have from 260ft? you mention that you tryed to hop n pop,if it were one of thouse jumps you got 6 sec under canopy,then i think you should try to see that on a video again..(or if it wanst vidoed,then get a jump whith video) either your canopy opens slow or you count slow..As Mac said,try to get it on video.

I videoed mac freefalling 230ft whith a 1-1,5sec delay,he got arround 4-5 sec under canopy,that really never really got flying,but kind of kept jelly until he pounded in(sorry mac,but it didnt look good from my point of weiv).He used a velcro(wizard?) and a (Dagger?),and (42´-46´pc?).

Stay safe out there.

[Spiderman]

Here you can see a clipp from the Norwegian basescene, showing what you can do from a cliff that is exactly 64meters(192feet), with a good old Mojo-240 (with more than 300 jumps on)http://www.offheading.com/Download.html.html
"Paal`s gainer from Sollihøgda". This cliff is jumped with non vented canopys on daily bases, because we are too poor to buy vents...

MOJO UBER ALLES & CONSOLIDATED RIGGING RULES

SPIDERMAN}( }( }(

"Just another intelligent comment by Spiderman"

[Faber]

how do you calculate your altitude?

64m=209,92ft
192ft=58,54m

THATS a BIG diff in that alti....18ft or 5,5m...

Using 1m =3,28ft,is that incorrect? im using ft all the time,but seems to rember i got this tool by Tom A.(or do i rember wrong Tom?)

[imported_Mac]

just out of interest - what is the height from exit to landing area? As there seems to be a lot of canopy time.

For another discussion. My thought is that there is alot of difference between freefalling +/-200ft to impact and +/-200ft to landing.

and I agree with Faber - 192ft is 58.5216 Meters. 64 meters is 209.984 Feet.

http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/LengthConverter.html

Rotzer uber alles!


:+

[Spiderman]

Sorry Boyz. In my calculation I did 64m x3 but it is not corect, as you say, and 5 meters is a linestretch, so it is a big difference ;-) I don't know the altitude difference from impactpoint to the road, but with an onheading you fly abow the trees pretty far, depending on the "lift" you get from the termics. Cool place just outside the city ;-)

Metric system uber alles

"Just another intelligent comment by Spiderman"

[Faber]

were is that city? looks like a nice place,could you mail me;-)

[Joy]

Hi Tom. About freefalling below 200 feet, I know it was done a quite a bit in the early 80's off of good water bridges. In 1983,4 of us including our USPA conference director and Phil Smith, Kevin Venel and myself freefell a 172 foot bridge in Texas over water. I used an old 9 cell by Paraflite called a Nimbus. Lousy for on headings but the fastest opening slider down canopy I ever had. In the saddle by 70 feet. Me and the conference director spent a night in jail since we were still in wet suits partying when they showed up, but they dismissed the charges the next week. Anyway, over water you can get away whith things like 2 people on one canopy, that you can't do over land.
Rick Harrison
BASE 38

[Slim]

This is quite commonplace in Oz to freefall 200ft or less over anything from rocks, sand, trees - you name it.

It is quite doable. I myself have jumped stowed unvented mojo 280 over sand from 57m - I would not recommend it. Very hard to measure the canopy time on that one if you are considering whether it was fully pressurised.

My lowest freefall on unvented canopy was with Dwain from the lower steel on a bridge north of a popular Pacific Norwest town. 53 yards was the lazer measure to the grass park below. I went hand held on this occasion and did consider my mortality as the canopy pressurised. Again Mojo 280 in Vision container - Again I would not recommend it - but it was done.

Dwain opened considerably higher vented 245 and joked at what he claimed he heard was me squeelling in freefall. As he is no longer here I would like to clear the record that I did not squeel but was certainly under duress. I believe this may have been freefallen by others since - but not many.

AS to your question of 200 ft with a vented. No worries - as long as you know what you are doing! People do aerials from this height. Don't be shy!

SLIM
Australian BASE Association

[JJ]

In response to:

>Is any body freefalling sub 200' with a non vented canopy?

As far as I know, no one is currently doing that on a regular basis. The record low free fall on an unvented canopy is around 170', but I believe that everyone who did that back in the day has long since gone over to using vented canopies for their low freefalls.

...and considering what SLIM was saying about that span under construction/renovation in the good ol PNW...

DW jumped it more than once with non-vented canopies as well as his chickie friend (although she was using vents like myself...I do believe). Personally, I would never even think of dropping anything under 200' without vents...in fact...I would not even think of jumping without vents period. Why not? it's only $$$... get yer priorities straight!

JJ

[Ghosty]

Hello,

Just to mention that we jumped often sub 200 with non vented canopies for years...doing fine ;-)

[JJ]

That's cool Belgian crew! You jump unvented and I won't!

Best wishes...

JJ:+

[Yuri]

Yo !

Now, shouldn't this be "You jump and i won't!" ?

Sorry, had to bust your old&brittle balls... ;-)

bsbd!

Yuri.

[Ray Losli]

Yo !

Now, shouldn't this be "You jump and i won't!" ?

................................................

HEEEE..! nice one
Yuri the only way you are going to get him
to jump again is to tie his hand and feet and
**Throw His Ass Off**

:7 sorry JJ :+

[JJ]

>Now, shouldn't this be "You jump and i won't!" ?

No, actually it should be "you jump unvented and maybe when I've forgotten how horrible it was to see so much death, I'll jump vented...because if you are going to risk your body for a few bucks...may the forces of gravity be with you." or something along those lines...

See ya on an exit point...sometime.

JJ

[Ghosty]

come on, now that unvented canopies exist it's very risky to jump sub 200feet with unvented??

anyway, ground rush is delicious ;-)

[JJ]

I agree! GR is delicious! But, if you know what you're doing...you can do it much more safely with vents. WHo is ghosty anyway? I know a couple Belgians, but I didn't think they were bright enough to go sub 200...but then again, if you are jumping unvented below 200...:P

JJ

[Spiderman]

Muhahaha....More Mojo advertising. Check out the smooth opening...50 meters, 42"pilot chute and a broken breake cord : look for "Tigern åpner Gråkallen (50m)" at this adress: http://offheading.com/pafiledb/pafiledb.php?action=category&id=1 Got my Mojo working}( }( }( Adam Filippino knew what he was doing when he designed that canopy :P AND BY THE WAY. THE TRUE HISTORY OF BASEJUMPING IS NOW AVIABLE!!! http://www.offheading.com/gpage3.html.html

Don't pull before you can smell the ground ;-) Have Fun!



:+ :+ :+ :+ JUST UPDATED THE LINKS, NOTHING MORE... We have solved the serverproblem. Now we will definitly have no money to buy the vents...Just don't post this link on skydiving pages people. Basejumpers only.:+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+

[imported_Tom Aiello]

Dude, the website rocks!

And I bet if you're on crutches I can beat you in a foot race. :P

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[imported_Johnny Utah]

Track or Die clip...
Sick!!!


Have fun, dont die!
Johnny Utah

johnnyutah101@hotmail.com
http://johnnyutah.com

[Spiderman]

I found Toms e-mail. Thanks...

[Faber]

chek out www.basedudes.com
and you will find out who Ghosty is;-)

Way cool guys,and werry freindly....

[JJ]

Breakcord? I thought this was about FF???

Shiiiiiiiiitt... Have done static line jumps from like 30 feet....with my pd chaos...over hard pavement... with 5 second canopy ride :P

Nice website...I remember that Kaatthammern jump spidey...still have the original copy...at least the cell phone lasted through the night...but those frigging stinging neddles! Tanks Yuri for the sedatives!! :9 That's the last time I help on an attempted pointless rescue...Why couldn't SPIDERMAN get down by himself???? }( :+ Where was his MOJO then???:7

[Spiderman]

:7 :7 :7 :7 I am very sorry J.J. I almost forgot you were a part of the Team X-Rescue, with a 5 meter car-rope and alot of good will:D :D (I saw it on the video and heard the storys later on). I also got the feeling of those frigging stinging neddles next day. I owe you a big cold beer for forgetting a thing like that;) And you are still one of my favorit camera guys after filming that day. Looks like you use gyro stabilization... Perfect shot!

But I will never forgive you that you didn't go up on top of the Katthammeren to trow down some bananas, snickers and some cold beverages to me later on. Its an easy hike, and that would make my stay on the ledge much more comfortable.x( x( x( :P

Speaking of cellphones... I would like to get a couple of radios like you guys had...But can't get them in Europe, and I will not let the US nazi customs photograph me and take my fingerprints, so no more US trips for me...How much is it for a pair?

Have fun with your superhydraulicalmegaturboventilatedjetpropellarcat apult canopy :+

PS. Was it alot of termic on your 30 feet jump?:9 :9 :+

[JJ]

Thanks for the kind words...
Actually, the jjump was into a bunch of stinging neddles and I dragged my kness through them and was up all night with a burning desire to cut my legs off just above the knees. }(

Give me your address and I will send you a pair of rechargable motorolas for future stay overs in the trees...and with the american frequencies, the Norgie Policia will not be able to find you when you are in those tiny/tight valleys...trying to escape after a 45 second FF.
:7 jimjenningsmpa@yahoo.com :7

Speaking of 45 second FFs...I hear you guys are getting stuck on the other side of the valley know that you have perfected yer tracking skills...:+ :-) :o

Be safe and ALWAYS take chances!

[Nigel]

This isn't entirely relevant to Tom's original post but it's food for thought if all else fails on a sub 200' jump.

Sorting through my old box of base stuff I've found some press clippings describing how a guy survived falling 200' onto the roof of a small car after jumping from a 22 floor tower block (April 1993). There's a picture of building and the car!

I've put them on some web space as PDFs http://jazzinleeds.org/base/archive/200fall_cuttings.html".

There were also several incidents of jumpers surviving totals into water from the 200-250' mark in the late 80's (Texas & UK). There's an account in an old back issue of Jump of the UK incident. Currently archiving old issues (83-89) to make available on a cdrom later this year.

Regards from a retired old-timer who always enjoys visiting BLinc but misses reading posts from the likes of Lukas and Dwain.

[Karin]

>Regards from a retired old-timer who always enjoys visiting
>BLinc but misses reading posts from the likes of Lukas and
>Dwain.

Cool post. There are so many gnar 'no-shite' survival stories out there - stranger things can always happen.

Odd, but just yesterday I read a thread on DZ.com in the "Gear & Rigging" forum that reminded me so much of Dwain & Lukas' old posts; "550lb vs. 825lb. microline":

Grega's: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1020903 and Darkwing's: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1021658

Gotta luv those techie minds. I'm sure D & L are both 'doing the math' together somewhere out there...