NPS and Gov't Web Sites . . .

[guest]

Today's NPS morning report includes a list of web sites that may be useful to anyone researching the current issues.

http://www.nps.gov/morningreport/msg00388.html

Nick-BR

[guest]

I don't know, but these statistics sure don't convince me that BASE jumpers are at the highest risk of all the people in the park.

From the NPS website, http://www.nps.gov/yose/news.htm:

================================

http://www.nps.gov/yose/news_99/nevf0712.htm:

July 12, 1999

HIKER DIES IN YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK AFTER BEING SWEPT OVER NEVADA FALL
Siddiq Parekh, of Diamond Bar, California, died on Saturday when he was accidentally swept over Nevada Fall on the John Muir Trail. Parekh, 31, was hiking with three friends on a two-day trip to climb Half Dome. He stopped near the Nevada Fall Footbridge to soak his feet in the Merced River and slipped on algae-covered rocks into the swift current and was washed over the 594-feet waterfall.

Parekh was an experienced Yosemite hiker and had made several trips to the park. Parekh's fall was witnessed by one of his friends who called rangers on a cell phone. Rangers using a helicopter were able to recover Parekh's body a few hours later.

Signs at the bridge use strong language and international symbols to warn hikers of the dangers of entering the water in that area.

***This marks the fourth death at Nevada Fall in the last four years.

_____________________________________


http://www.nps.gov/yose/news_99/drwn0804.htm:

August 04, 1999

SWIMMER DIES IN YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK
Sergeio "Sachi" Marcovich, 13, from Mexico City, Mexico died yesterday after disappearing in the Merced River in Yosemite National Park. Sergeio was swimming with family members approximately a half-mile below the Pohono Bridge in Western Yosemite Valley when his family realized he had not been seen in several minutes. After about thirty minutes of fruitless searching, the family called rangers at about 1 p.m. to help. Approximately four hours later, searchers found Sergeio just below an area known locally as "Table Rock" in about six feet of swift-moving water.

Sergeio had apparently been swept through a narrow channel in the river and then pinned under a rock. Rangers recovered his body around 6 p.m. by building a temporary plywood dam to divert the water. After the recovery effort, rescue workers were unable to resuscitate Sergeio. Park rangers served as coroners on the incident and pronounced him dead at the scene. Drowning is the apparent cause of death. A standard autopsy will be performed by Mariposa County.

The search effort entailed 50 National Park Service personnel, including park rangers, search and rescue staff, fire crews, and support staff. In addition, rescue efforts were aided by Lemoore Naval Air Station and American Medical Response. Others involved in the incident included the Mariposa County Mental Health Department, a volunteer from Yosemite Concession Services, and a local reverend who assisted with family members.

***This is the fourth accidental death in Yosemite National Park this year.

_____________________________________________

http://www.nps.gov/yose/news_99/base1023.htm

October 23, 1999

B.A.S.E. JUMPER DIES IN YOSEMITE JUMP
Jan Davis, 60, of Santa Barbara, California, died yesterday afternoon while attempting a B.A.S.E. jump from El Capitan in Yosemite Valley. A crowd of approximately 150 people witnessed the event.

Her jump was the fourth of five planned jumps as an act of civil disobedience, protesting the fact that B.A.S.E. jumping is an illegal activity in the park. Although the jumps were illegal and not sanctioned by the National Park Service, the participants agreed to peaceful arrests, forfeiture of their equipment, and appearances in the U.S. Magistrate Court for violation of 36 CFR 2.17A3, Illegal Air Delivery in a national park.

B.A.S.E. jumping remains illegal in Yosemite National Park.

*** There have been six fatalities and several injuries relating to B.A.S.E. jumping in the past TWENTY years.

____________________________________

[imported_mknutson]

The sixth fatality was well after the jump itself was made successfully!

What does several injuries mean anyways?
Does that means 3 to 4? Even if it is 10 in the past 20 years, that is a dam good record!

Imaging how many less injuries or fatalities there would be if we could jump in better conditions and NOT have to be mentally pre-occupied with getting busted and loosing our gear.

[guest]

The fact that NPS officials count Frank Gambalie III's death as a wilderness parachuting fatality means they _know_ they were responsible for chasing him to his death... otherwise, they would include the fatality among their drowning statistics, where it would have been _Frank's_ fault for jumping into the river...

kind of an interesting take, eh?

I think instead of arguing with NPS figures, let's just go with the six. THey shoot themselves in the foot again. Go NPS, go! With adversaries like you, who needs allies?

[guest]

I believe we are all Captains of our own ships. Having said that, I must also say I believe there is "mild" culpability on the part of the NPS in some of the following cases.

Let's look at it this way:

Jimmy Tyler:
First Yosemite BASE fatality. This jump is from Half Dome, and as I recall, done around mid-day. For some reason Jimmy did a very short delay (he was an experienced BASE jumper) and may have had an off heading opening, or trouble handling the mid-day generated winds that swirl up and down the wall. In either case he hit the wall very soon after launching as heard by his companion still on top.

BASE jumping was still in legal limbo at the time and I don't think getting caught was on Jimmy's mind that much. The NPS had little to do with this death. (BTW, Jimmy's story gets better when you add he was an active IRS agent at the time of his death and also under investigation by the Government for a number of things including misappropriation of funds and drug dealing. I remember reading the NPS impounded a brand new and very expensive motorhome Jimmy had driven into the valley, and it was reported to be stuffed with drugs and envelopes of cash).

Mitch Reno:
This is the 2nd BASE fatality in the park and again it's Half Dome. Ironically, Mitch did the exact opposite from what Jimmy Tyler did. Mitch over-delayed and impacted the talus during line stretch. Some estimate his delay at 18-19 seconds when most will say the absolute limit is 17 seconds. (This would put you even with the beginning of the talus line on the wall and you have to track like mad to get there). Again the NPS had little to do with this.

"Magilla" (Jeff Christman):
If there had been a legal program for BASE jumping in the Park at the time Magilla died, he would have never been allowed to jump. With a program like Norway's in place, Magilla would not have met the basic qualifications. He wasn't an experienced BASE jumper and he had never had any recognized BASE training. I do see a mild case of culpability in this case concerning the NPS.

Susan Oatly:
Yosemite's third BASE jumping fatality and the first at El Cap. Lies were told and believed concerning this person ability and previous experience. There may have been some amount of girlism involved here (when the heck are we gonna learn that lesson) and while this expedition was led by a very capable and experienced BASE jumper, Susan was able to slip through the cracks. Again a open and legal program may have prevented this fatality by screening her out.

Frank Gambalie:
If Frank had been killed during his getaway after successfully knocking over the First National Bank, everyone would have said Frank was killed robbing a bank. If there had been a legal program for BASE jumping in place Frank would have made his small withdrawal and went happily on his way. Again this is mild culpability on the part of the NPS.

Jan Davis:
Jumping your "B" gear in Yosemite is a tradition created by the lack of a legal program. However this event is too fresh for more comment.

My point? Keeping these jumps illegal makes them more dangerous. If injuries and deaths are as much of a concern to the NPS as they say then a legal program would be safer.

Unless they string big nets below the launch points BASE jumping will continue underground in this National Park forever and we, and the Park Service, will all suffer the baggage that comes with it.

Five slots a day at dawn is all we ask . . .!

Nick_BR

[imported_mknutson]

I agree with just getting a little.

Do you think that dusk or dawn would be better?
Maybe a dusk load would allow jumpers to hike during the day and not have to spend the night on the mountain?

[guest]

Dusk would be better for us, but not for the Park. Dawn, or actually pre-dawn, jumps would draw less attention and after a while just be a thing that happens, just another day in the park.

Nick_BR

[imported_mknutson]

I will start putting together all the information about being a good clean camper, weather the elements for a double sunrise.

One at above the valley, then one in the valley shortly after.

THAT IS GOING TO BE SO INCREDIBLE!

[guest]

I knew Jimmy, the two jumpers with him, and a member of the ground crew. While most of the above story is very accurate, the motor home was not stuffed with drugs and or envelopes of cash.

Seems Jimmy was suspected of having some sort of relationship with the "Grandmother Mafia", know at the time for laundering drug cash. They somehow lost some cash. The IRS suspected Jimmy, but never found the cash. The motor home contained some evidence of drug use.

The IRS had ample reason to suspect Jimmy, but no hard evidence. No arrests were ever made. Much investigation was done for a long period after his death.

Just wanted add my two cents worth. Jimmy was a hell of a lot of fun to jump with and to party with. Ah, the good old days.

[guest]

Of my three jumps, the sunrise jump after climing El Cap and spending the night on the top, was by far my favorite.

Not much happening in the valley at 6 in the morning. Ground crew look outs had a good handle on what was happening in the meadow. No traffic on the road. Alpine glow sunrise is wonderful.

You just need sherpas to bring gear and water up & down for you.

[guest]

When are skydivers ever going to learn that Yosemite is _not_ a drop zone. You "regulate" the wilderness parachuting the same we you do wilderness climbing; get a back country permit and let the instinct for self-preservation and the lurking Darwin handle the rest. Al you have to do is look at SKYDIVING #184 and see what superintendent Joe Alston says about permits and programs "managed " by some entity like CJAA.

It creates a colossal clusterfuck of brueaucracy and liability and accountability.

We must _not_ ask for five or ten or any slots per day because that requires management, bureaucracy and liability, something the NPS wants to deal with even less than eilderness parachuti8ng itself.

Do those guys and us a favor too and remember, Yosemite is wilderness, not Coney Island or Perris Valley. You don't reserve your slots and buy jump tickets and show your logbooks and get your gear checked. The climbing community does _not_ do that, and it co-exists fine with other park uses without bureaucracies and wannabe brig brothers pestering them.

If we continue to ask for a "program," we not opnly play to the NPS's strengths in teerms of opposition, we play to its weaknesses in terms of being able to make such a thing happen even if wanted to.

Remember the 1980 program; a bureaucractic, administrative _nightmare_ -- and it was the admin nightmare as much as jumper misbehavior that resulted in the cessation of the program

Remember that
Remember that
Remember that
Remember that
Remember that
Remember that
Remember that
Remember that
Remember that
Remember that
Remember that.....

[guest]

Hello D.

Would you send me an e-mail address. I'd like you to help me separate the fact from fiction about Jimmy Tyler for a book I'm working on about BASE jumping.

I met him briefly around the time he was jumping his Piglet from the back of moving truck in San Diego. And I remember him as "extreme" before the term became nauseating. You are right, he was an interesting fellow and there's been so much rumor, and so much time has passed, I want to get it right.

Cheers,
Nick Di Giovanni

[guest]

Robin,

You say "skydiving" like it's a dirty word or something.

It's like the jumper who can only explain his feelings for BASE jumping by deriding skydiving.

When ever I pick up an article that begins, "Unlike skydiving, BASE jumping is . . ." that's about as far as I get.

Thinking that climbing and BASE jumping can be done the same way is ludicrous. There's no such thing as bouldering in BASE jumping, no way to just stick a toe in, it's all or nothing. Without some type program, like the programs that are working so well in the rest of the world, it would be BASE Armageddon.

Also you are saying that BASE jumping skills and climbing skills are like the same thing. You don't really think that, do you?

Nick

[guest]

Nick darling,

Congratulations on demolishing that straw man you set up for punching practice.

First of all, I didn't say "skydiving" like it was a dirty word, deride the sport or explain my feeling for BASE jumping at the expense of teh sport that birthed it; I just wondered when skydivERs are going to figure out - finally - that El Capitan is not a drop zone.

When WIlliam H. Ottley wrote the May 1980 article in PARACHUTIST called "El CApitan Opens For Skydiving," it did indeed sound like an advertisement to a new boogie -- and the results followed suit.

It is this _mentality_ that I get tired of hearing, a mentality that doesn't have its roots in the wilderness but in the urban world.

Your climbing-jumping supposition was less straw man, I think, than honest confusion on your part, so let me try to be more clear:

You don't _do_ climbing and jumping the same way; you _manage_ them the same way. We be talking apples and watermelons here, bro. How an individual technically approaches a climb or jump may be different, but how a massive bureaucracy approaches their respective management need not be. In fact, any student of government will tell you, one of the quickest ways to the new idea graveyard is to suggest a bureaucracy do more work.

And darling NIck, there _is_ a BASE equivalent to bouldering; it's called SKYDIVING (did I say that sweetly enough?) and if I recall, you and BR strongly recommend it to people in exactly the same way that big wall climbers recommend bouldering to novices.

Yosemite has massive, challenging big walls, walls where you can't exactly "stick a toe in," walls where you can hardly even retreat, yet there is no "program" and there is no Armageddon...

Look at the real world instead of the CJAA construct you've created, and you'll see this. Take the Black Canyon. Unlike Yosemite, the rock there is very tricky and nasty, and climbing there requires significantly greater experience, knowledge and judgment than in places like Yo with its beautiful and solid granite.

No "program" there, either, and yet the number of climbing fatalities there is quite low.

How come?

But my principal bone of contention is over your condescension toward wilderness parachutists. Your assertion that they will kill themselves in droves unless they are _forced_ to be tutored and supervised by the gods of BASE is comical. Sure, there may be a few more "bozo fatalities" when it's lega, but that's not called Armageddon; it's called _natural selection_.

Your final paragraph, well, I'll say it this way: You have your Aristotle hat on and I'm wearing Plato. You're looking at nuts and bolts and I'm looking big picture.

More to the point, I'm looking at it from the viewpoint of NPS managers; you're looking at it from the viewpoint of a BASE manufacturers who sells training course and expeditions and would profit enormously from getting a park "concession" to "train" wilderness parachutists.

ANd NIck darling, all you have to do is check out some of the history of concessionaires in NPS units and the scams and conflicts of interest and other hooey that always happen when a special intersest group gets the government to give their company protected status; you'll find that's not exactly the best way to handle this.

Beyond that part of your perspective, there are certain BASE jumpers who think it's proper to bring the regulation of the urban drop zone to the wilderness. That's what we tried in 1980 and it failed miserably for several reasons.

Five slots a day every day. What a joke. From what walls, Nick darling? El Capitan. Glacier Point? The Rostrum? Yosemite Falls? Middle Cathedral?

Ooops, wait a minute. You may be qualified for El Cap, but not Middle Cathedral. And is that five slots for El CAp or for Half Dome too? And what about XXXXX and YYYY sites? You know, those low ones?

And how aboutm jumping a one-parachute rig from a cliff high enough to use even a _skydiving_ reserve (no derision there for the sport, bro), just where does the "program" hold with that?

I mean, there's a school of thought that says it's plain goofy to jump with one parachute when there's time for two... but then, your company doesn't _make_ a two-parachute BASE rig, so just where exactly will you weigh in on that legitimate question? And then, who's going to decide which cliffs are one-parachute-okay and two-parachute required?

And what about flotation gear requirements, and proper camping gear and hiking shoes and just how far does your "program" go?

Having said all this, I don't think it's unreasonable to consider a Norway model for use in Yosemite, but at the same time we are dealing with vastly different situations, and we aren't dealing with one set of clifffs but 100 different parks, monuments and recreation areas all over the United States.

From a management standpoint, it's goofy to micromanage when it may not be necessary -- especially when the micromanaged approach failed so utterly before.

No, urban programmers notwithstanding, the way to make this work best is to make the NPS work the least, expose it to the least liability, and stay out of its hair. "Programs" and silly suggestions like "five slots a day" do exactly the opposite.

Again, I refer you to Skydiving #184 and Joe Alston's comments related thereto. In fact, here they are:

"I won’t belittle the Park Service at all," says Harry Parker. "They have a tough job, we set a bad example at the beginning, and since then there’s been essentially no communication. We’re hoping to use this opportunity in Lake Powell to start something positive -- like a limited CJAA-run program -- or even just to get some open communication."
"We respect the need of the superintendent to manage his unit," said Oxx. "What we’re saying is: We’re the experts here -- we have the skills and the leadership. And we realize, now that we’ve won the case, that the real work has just begun."
Glen Canyon superintendent Joe Alston is leery of CJAA’s proposed program of limited dates and jumpers who are overseen by the BASE jumper’s group.
"There are some real management and liability issues involved with the commercialization they’re proposing," he said. "If we authorize them as a quasi-commercial company, we’re partly held liable for the activity itself and there’s no insurance. I know they sign waivers on drop zones, but that doesn’t work with us; We need insurance, because if people get hurt, they tend to go for Uncle Sam’s deep pockets."

See, this is the problem with "program" thinking, and while I have great respect for Will and Harry and the great folks at BR and CR, the fact remains that until you all figure out how to answer Joe Alston, your insistence that "programs" are necessary to prevent "Armageddon" will hurt more than it will help.

Love,

BASE44

[guest]

Don Morton
P. O. Box 669
Oakhurst, Ca. 93644
559-683-3379

I'll be in Yosemite Monday, maybe we could talk then.

[guest]

The only way to put the number of BASE fatalities into perspective is to compare them to the number of deaths, over the same period of time, that occured in the Park while:

Mountain climbing
Hiking
Drowning in the Valley
Drowning going over water falls
Driving
Murder
Heart Attack
Fishing

I'm sure several of the catagories incurred more fatalities than BASE Jumping

[guest]

I'm working on trying to get this information, but BASE certainly looks better than the Department of the Interior!!!!!!
http://www.mrps.doi.gov/part_2.htm
In Fiscal Year (FY) 1998, 13 of our fellow DOI workers were killed in accidents on the job. From FY1993-FY1997, 40 more were killed. Nearly 5000 Interior employee injuries and illnesses occurred in FY 1997, of which 1960 resulted in lost time. Preventing accidents to employees and visitors is everyone's job!

[guest]

Robin,

Any current program will be run by BASE jumpers, not USPA. I too watched USPA muck things up, we all did. But the world of BASE jumping is a very different place in the year 2000. You sound a bit stuck in the eighties. (Or is it the sixties).

The blame may have been with USPA but not the fault. No one knew what direction BASE jumping would take, or even if it would survive. It was the sport's infancy so what's so unusual that we crapped our pants a few times.

Your vendetta against the NPS is very uncompromising and maybe a bit too personal, (I realize you have reasons for that) but we are each free to go our own ways. You go ahead and keep using a hammer and I'll use my own means.
We all make up part of the whole. There will be others, who may want the same things we all do, but believe there are smoother and maybe even harsher ways to go about it, and that's fine.

In my opinion, and after thinking of all that's happened in this sport, I'm starting not to care if the opportunity to jump El Cap legally ever happens. Besides, one can travel to Norway for the price of a El Cap fine and jump happy and free.

You mentioned several things you are tired of and here's one of mine. As one generation of BASE matures enough to actually get something done, another newer generation comes along and the re-education process begins anew. One step forward, one step back. You can say it's human nature, but I call it stupidity and a disregard for history.

I also see the entire park management system as flawed. Either anybody can do anything they desire in a National Park, or nobody is allowed to do anything except breath the air and look at the view. Anything in between is hard to justify unless it is controlled and has the best interests of the Park at heart. As I've said in other posts, our strongest argument for legal jumping in Yosemite is the simple fact there isn't another comparable site in the entire United States. That does make for an undo hardship on us as a sport, but it's just that, a sport, yet we tend to think we deserve more consideration than the next fellow.

Here's another nail in your anti-program stance, you have been a BASE jumper long enough to know that the majority of BASE jumpers can't be left unsupervised as of yet. Climbers can do it as they have a longer tradition of un-written rules to follow and the mega peer pressure factor in Yosemite keeps all but the most dedicated kooks in line.

We know you have fought long and hard Robin, so we'll throw you a bone. When the legal program of jumping begins, you can be in charge.

Love,
Nick_BR

[guest]

Once again, you start wiht a straw man. I never said anything about USPA running a new program; I specifically cited CJAA as the culprits.

Beyond that, I find it astonishing that you say "our strongest argument for legal jumping in Yosemite is the simple fact there isn't another comparable site in the entire United States."

This is utter bladerdash. The argument for jumping in Yosemite and everywhere else has nothing to do with it suitability as a jump site and everything to do with the fact that ...

IT'S OUR PARK TOO!

Period.

And on that note, SEEya. I'm going on vacation.

[guest]

When you have this "program" in Yosemite, just how exactly are you going to keep BASE jumpers who choose not to participate from jumping? Have the rangersd stake out the meadow and use informants and chase them into the rivers?

Brilliant uidea, you have here. LKet's create another system that replicattes all the problems of the current situation.

Or is CJAA going to put guns and badges on and run around like little junior Nazis busting jumpers who don't kowtow to the dictates of the CJAA program.

This is another reason I'm done with this thread, Nick darling; you guys haven't thought past your own pocketbooks on this one and are basically advocating another layer of bureaucracy and law enforcement and conflict to go along with the one that's working so well now.

Brilliant idea.

[guest]

Robin,

We can disagree. Have a nice vacation!

C-ya,
Nick

[guest]

I'm not trying to attack you, but there is a flaw in your argument. How many people BASE jump in Yosemite every year? I'm sure there are a few more climbers, hikers, swimmers, automobile passengers, heart patients, and fishermen around to boost the numbers of their unfortunate circumstances. I left out idiots who swim above waterfalls and murder victims because I really don't think most BASE jumpers want to be compared to those demographics. I understand the point you are trying to make, but I don't think it stands up to a closer look

[guest]

WHAAAA...

[guest]

Dusk is best unless the wind blows hard. Then the temptation to "just jump anyway" is a serious consideration and can be trouble with anything but a LONG delay. I had this happen recently and the turbulence was awesome. I would not recommend this to the newcomer to big cliff jumping in big winds.

The Fox likes the deep,dark night. He likes to play with the ranger boys on the slippery slopes in the darkness. Snow is good fun. Ice is more fun. Isn't it "Three Stooges" on an icy ledge ? Cold water can be good too, can't it? Mr. "I don't want to go in there with my service belt on" can tell you about the night he almost went for a swim in the Merced after The Fox. Did your little, tiny pee-pee freeze, Mr. Ranger ? It's good you got smart and didn't continue, because I had on a dry suit and you almost "screwed the pooch" And last but not least, my compliments to the "runner" who played with me in the darkness recently. You're good. You have my respect. I've started working out daily because of you. And I'll never put myself in an open area again. Why did you stop ? New orders, I'm told. Too bad. We were starting to have some real fun. The Fox salutes you, sir.

The adventures of winter await us now. The Fox invites you to play in "full conditions". Dougal Haston would be proud of us all. Although, he would be asking, why can't you jump from a rock with a parachute when you can climb it. Doesn't make sense, does it ? I am sure that most of the fine "ranger boys" don't have an answer for us there. They're just mindless sheep. They're just "doing their jobs" like the soldiers at Meli, like Oliver North, like the FBI "hit men". The rangers are certainly all innocent. NOT !

SEE YOU IN THE COLD, DARK NIGHT - RANGER BOYS !

The Fox

[guest]

I totally agree with BASE 44 on this. The best thing for the parks would be no regulation and no permit. They should simply abolish the law as it stands and let things sort themselves out. And things will sort themselves out. Hey NPS, JUST LET US JUMP and we will address your worries one at a time when they present. This is 1999. BASE is not going away. Give us another try to "do it right" before more people get killed.

The Fox