Mick's efforts and the future

[Yuri]

Yo!

Mick: in the hindsight i really wish i have toned down my arguments. I respect you and your efforts A LOT and do not want to put you down. I have always tried to do my best to defend opinions i've believed in and attack ideas that felt wrong, regardless of the name behind them. I fully expect to be flamed in return and believe that an outcome of such a heated discussion is a theory strong enough to stand up for any tasks. Such a theory is especially important since the task (legal jumps in National Parks) has been considered impossible very recently.

I still believe that a head-on approach won't yield immediate results here. However, your program can be the base for other places, specifically Norway where it is the matter of retaining legal access that already exists.

Captn Chaos have called me an hour ago and we had a long discussion on this matter [for the record, he is one of the most thoughtful and experienced Norwegian jumpers]. It appears that in Norway a sensible program that will satisfy both the government and the majority of BASE jumpers can be created before the next season. In my opinion, there are 3 key reasons for success there.

#1: both the government and general public are open-minded and willing to accept personal responsibility

#2: enforcement: due to the nature of Kjerag, it will be very hard to jump without local help, i.e. following the rules/recommendations. Kjerag is setting the precedent for other less popular places.

#3: when somebody does break the rules and burns in, it will be enough to distance BASE Association from an unfortunate jumper. He has been given all the info, help, etc but chose not to use it. This will generally be enough to satisfy officials. No actual enforcement is necessary here.

A simplified rating system may be helpful, mainly to encourage education and deal with exploding number of first-time jumpers. Rating the objects would be especially beneficial for beginners and should match the jumpers (i.e. student-intermediate-advanced). Making it more complex can be fun but will kill the idea.

In addition, creating and supporting our own rescue service and/or putting some money into insurance will take the main argument out of government's hands. Trollveggen will probably stay illegal (and truly dangerous!) but may in fact provide contrast to highlight legal efforts in Kjerag.

Let's start with a task that is going to be successful and use it as a precedent in the future. It will be hard to argue statistics with 5-digit numbers and a government support (even if it's a foreign government). At some point, a matter of the national pride should come to play... http://www.baselogic.com/forum/images/wink.gif

bsbd!

Yuri.

[guest]

Damn Yuri, you continue to amaze and impress me !

One thing though, we will not be making a set of rules or regulations in Norway. All I'm doing is working with Mick's original outline toghether with a bunch of great jumpers out there. It looks nothing like the original at this point, and most of it is based on common sense and recommendations. I think great work is in progress, it may not be _the way_, but it certainly is an option worth looking very closely at. And I think most people will see it for what it is, it won't nessesarily be restricting or limiting on the personal level, but more of an organized gathering of all the knowledge, common sense and recommendations allready out there. The difference is we put it on paper, and by doing so we get organized and representable http://www.baselogic.com/forum/images/happy.gif

[imported_mknutson]

I am moved by your cander and comming forward with this.

I do agree with you on many points.
Please view the update I have put online at http://www.baselogic.com/ibf/license.pdf

This is going to be evolving many times over the next couple of weeks.
The above link is going to be the place to get the latest copy. If you didn't get it from this link, then it may be outdated. I released 3 revisions just yesterday.

Mick. http://www.baselogic.com/forum/images/devil.gif

[guest]

I read your messages about licesing, education, rating.. in BASE jumping and your Certification Proposal. I'd like to give you my comments and view on the education problem.

I'm afraid that the Certification Proposal will turn into a "BASE school". It would be a great way to encourage people to do their first jump, but is it a good idea? I'm not saying that the number of base jumper have to be limited, but I'm sure that not everybody can become a BASE jumper. I play a lot of air sport as I'm skydiver, paraglider, hang glider, microlight pilot for over ten years and there is no comparison possible with BASE regarding the danger. An error in BASE jumping can result in a fatal issue much more easily than in any other sport. That's why I think there are people who are made for BASE and others who are not.

In the current BASE community, there is no problem of that kind, but the number of first-time jumper is growing. Why is it growing? Because BASE seems safer than in the past mainly due to the gear, what is true. But safer does not mean easier! And I'm afraid of the future if a large flow of beginners come to BASE because of the fake of the safty of the supervision (license, education program...).

So I think information is as important as education, and especially the information of the prospective first-time jumpers. They must be informed not only on the danger of BASE (what they usually know) but on the skill and ability required in order that they can decide with full knowledge. This problem is mentioned in the summary of the Certification Proposal but with no solution though it's essential. How will you tell someboby: "You can't BASE because you're not able to.". That's why BASE must not become commonplace.


Take it just as a thought and not a set idea on the subject.

[guest]

Yesterday I was going to make a comment with that idea in mind. I am more of a beginner and I have noticed that many people from our Drop Zone shy away from base jumping including bridge day. I will ask if they are going to bridge day this year and get the response "nah, I don't think so, but maybe next year". These people have many more skydives than myself but I enjoy base jumping much more than I enjoy skydiving. My point being that the certification may help gain access to places legally but I too worry about it becoming commericalized. Possibly people who would otherwise not base jump now thinking that it is safe because of the training and certification programs. Anyway, just my two cents for what its worth and it looks like there is not going to be any easy answer for the access issue.

[Yuri]

Yo!

Any program will be a catch-22: it is necessary to manage the explosively increasing number of new jumpers, but will pull even more people into the sport. There is no free lunch, at least if you stick with legal means http://www.baselogic.com/forum/images/wink.gif

bsbd!

Yuri.

[guest]

<center><font size="1" color="#ff0000">LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-99 AT 07:33&nbsp;PM (EST)</font></center>

It's out of our hands. Commercialism, or the amount of it in BASE jumping, will be dictated by what people want. If they want BASE training and are willing to pay, it will be provided. If they want to go on guided trips, and are willing to pay, it will be provided. If they want their rigs packed at Bridge Day, and are willing to pay, it will be provided.

The number of people interested in BASE jumping and the number of actual "first" BASE jumps is up because everything goes up, the DOW goes up, the rent goes up, Yuri's ego goes up !

Main stream interest in BASE jumping keeps growing because the sport has an open architecture. This board, all the other BASE web sites and to some extent most of you jumping now are all the result of this openess. One of the prime reasons people come to BASE jumping and the reason they stay is the freedom. Any time we start to monkey with that freedom is a good time to stop and take a breath.

In these times when personal responsibility is said like a dirty word, it's refreshing to see responsibility taken by those who are capable and mature enough to handle it.

Licensing, regulating, and mandating is a subject that's been on the table for a long, long time and that's where it will sit and rot. It would do nothing but dumb down the present system as licenses become substitutes for real life experience.

(This is what happened when USPA came out with the PRO rating. Who got on demos used to be regulated by peers who knew each other's abilites, now we see demo organizers just begging for a warm body with a pro rating and the current demo accident rate speaks for itself).

Long time (Stage Three) BASE jumpers already know their ticket to ride is their own self reliance and know-how, not a piece of paper bestowed on them for passing a test. This is an honest way to go about things. Your reputation is your passport.
Besides we already have a mechanism in place to judge the ability of strangers. It's called a BASE Award. Anyone who can manage four jumps from the four categories is a BASE jumper plain and simple. Any other level of experience can be gleaned from the person's number of jumps.

The only purpose of any paperwork that says otherwise is only in place to fool the swells (and ourselves).

Nick

[guest]

The CJAA copuld use his type of motivation!

[guest]

Tim Sumpter for V-P!
He's done a lot of work this year.