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imported_badenhop
January 20th, 2004, 04:12 AM
Hi Nick,
Thanks for your work, it's an unpleasant job, we should all be glad someone is willing to keep it up to date. I wish you could stop.

There's an entry I think should be added.
Our good friend Dave Flannel was killed this past Autumn.
He perished on a BASE expedition to the Cave.
Not a BASE death,
but a BASE jumper killed just barely outside the sport.
All due respect.
RIP Dave.

Nick_D
January 20th, 2004, 10:20 AM
Thanks for the reminder. I'll add Dave to the List.

Also, does anyone have a name for the last jumper on the list? Or any more details about the incident? (This was the bridge jump in France).

Nick
BASE 194

Nick_D
January 20th, 2004, 10:50 AM
Hi Everyone,

I have updated the BASE Fatality List. I also had to move to a different server. I'm sorry for the inconvenience, but please change you links and bookmarks to reflect the new URL.

The World BASE Fatality List is now here:

http://hometown.aol.com/base194/myhomepage/base_fatality_list

Nick DG
BASE 194

Wayne Stout
January 20th, 2004, 12:17 PM
My name is Wayne Stout and I just sent a message to you from the list itself. I can not determine if it went through. I had some comments about Brian Stout's portion of the list. Brian was killed on June 15, 2002 at the Perrine.

If you received my comments, great. If you didn't, could you please let me know?

Thank You,

Wayne Stout
Brian's Father

Nick_D
January 20th, 2004, 09:07 PM
Hello Mr. Stout,

No, I didn't see anything from you today in my e-mail. You can send e-mail to me directly at:

base194@aol.com

Nick

Nick_D
January 21st, 2004, 09:06 AM
Here's a easier URL for the BASE Fatality List . . .

http://www.basefatalities.info/

Thanks to Craig for setting that up.

Nick D
BASE 194

imported_mknutson
January 21st, 2004, 01:31 PM
>Hi Everyone,
>
>I have updated the BASE Fatality List. I also had to move to a
>different server. I'm sorry for the inconvenience, but please
>change you links and bookmarks to reflect the new URL.
>
>The World BASE Fatality List is now here:
>
>http://hometown.aol.com/base194/myhomepage/base_fatality_list
>
>Nick DG
>BASE 194
>


#39 Terry Forrester, June 10, 1999 was actually '2000'.

base428
January 21st, 2004, 01:32 PM
Just a suggestion, but maybe the fatality list would be more balanced if it contained some background info and statistics on base jumping versus other sports.

I've noticed that the media is incorporating the fatality list (or jumpers are feeding the info to the media) into nearly all BASE jumping articles. I'm always hearing lines like "there have been over 70 deaths in the sport of BASE jumping...".

While accurate stats are a great tool, perhaps supplimenting the fatility list will better compare our sport to other "normal" sports such as biking, skiing, and whitewater rafting where HUNDREDS of people die each year.

COOL FACT:
----------
According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission there were 37 known vending machine fatalities between 1978 and 1995 (only 31 for BASE in the same time period), for an average of 2.18 deaths per year. Over the past decade there were a total of six recorded shark attack fatalities in the U.S., for an average of .6 deaths per year. Ergo, barring a drastic reduction in the frequency of vending machine accidents since 1995, vending machines are indeed more deadly than sharks by a factor of almost four.


------------
Jason Bell (BASE428)
Email: jbell@vertical-visions.com
Web: www.vertical-visions.com or www.bridgeday.info

Craig
January 21st, 2004, 02:28 PM
> #39 Terry Forrester, June 10, 1999 was actually '2000'.

And it's actually Terry Forrestal

Nick_D
January 21st, 2004, 11:49 PM
Thanks for the dates and spelling for Terry. I knew the right spelling, but there’s a million little details in there . . .

Jason,

I agree the true lessons and statistics of the list are not understood by everyone who reads it, including probably some of us. However, I started the list as a safety tool for BASE jumpers and I don't want anything to get in the way of that. It stands on its own, with no explanations given, and I can't bring myself to pander to the dumbest in the room by qualifying it all.

I suppose I meant to write the list in way, and in a format, that jumpers recognize and understand and most people outside the “know” wouldn’t. Yet, those decisions are made almost fifteen years ago when BASE is like on another planet. I’m actually thinking of taking the list off the web altogether. I’d keep it up and make it available free to jumpers maybe through Rick & Joy (don’t say anything I haven’t asked them yet) and the people running the first BASE courses that use it.

Ya think?

Nick D:-)
BASE 194

Faber
January 22nd, 2004, 12:18 AM
Nick i would be sad not to be abel to go see that list. its a great reminder to me that evrybody can die,its like a grave yard to me,it aint a pleassent place to be,but werry informative.

just my 0.2

imported_Tom Aiello
January 22nd, 2004, 10:38 AM
>I’m actually thinking of taking the list off the web altogether.

Please don't.

I know recently I forwarded the link to some new jumpers in a relatively "BASE isolated" place (northern Africa) who found it very educational. I'd hate for people like that to miss the information.

It's good for all of us to review it periodically. And that's far less likely to happen if you have to write to Rick asking for it.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

feral
January 22nd, 2004, 10:48 AM
Hi Nick

Please keep the list up on the web

It is a great tool to show jumpers geting or wanting to get into the sport ,that this is not like most sports you make a mistake and it can be your last .

And Jason wanting to compare our sport to others is stupid like here in Australia the most deadly sport is rock fising kills 100plus a year and base in Oz history only 4 but look how many rock fish to how many base jump and it still shows that our sport is more deadly.

I have a lot of Good mates on that list and dont want to join them

ps Nick What happened to the grim reaper holding the cristal ball with the number in it can you bring that back ...


bsbd feral Inject saline in your contact's

imported_mknutson
January 22nd, 2004, 11:56 AM
Sorry Nick, but it is a VERY BAD! idea to take your list off the web.

It is the best reality examples in existance! This also helps people to remember their friends, and keep safety in mind.

I fully support the list, and if you need server help to keep the list going, let me know!

base428
January 22nd, 2004, 03:37 PM
Nick,

How about having users enter a password to view the list?
This can easily be done on most servers. The password can be provided to any jumper wanting to review it, but it wouldn't be accessible for the media scum out there.

Feral,

Comparing our sport to others may be a bit unbalanced, but so is the media. The media enjoys mentioning the 70+ BASE deaths with every article they publish, so a simple reality check showing that people DO die in other sports doesn't really seem that "stupid" to me.

"Stupid" is better defined by one's failure to spell beyond the 2nd grade level....but I won't mention any names:P


------------
Jason Bell (BASE428)
Email: jbell@vertical-visions.com
Web: www.vertical-visions.com or www.bridgeday.info

crwper
January 26th, 2004, 12:11 PM
I've forwarded the list on occasion to "would-be" BASE jumpers who approach me at the dropzone. I reveiew the list myself regularly.

Yes, vending machines have been responsible for a number of deaths, but we all know that far more people come into contact with vending machines than with BASE jumping. Our sport can be very dangerous, and although the media may like to sensationalize that, I don't think it would be to our advantage if the media started writing that our sport is safer than vending-machine use.

I like to review the list because it doesn't attempt to rationalize the data--because maybe this isn't the sort of thing that can really be rationalized. I think it would be a shame if that changed.

Michael

K
January 26th, 2004, 06:43 PM
Hi Nick-

Please don't take the List off the web. It is very informative, it puts the brakes on a lot of people that would rush in where angels dare not tread, (good thing we're not angels, any of us, eh?) and it is a cornerstone of fact about our sport. Done badly or with bad luck, it is deadly. No one should be in denial about that as they approach BASE. For me, occasionally viewing the List is like visiting dear friends that are no longer with us...at least on this plane of existence...

By the way, an avid rock climber brought me a magazine with an article about Moab...it was written for climbers, but I was amazed to see that in the year prior to the article being written, 5 mountain bike riders died by going off the edge on their bikes. No one died BASE jumping in Moab in that same year. I found that very interesting, and use it as a point of comparison when people slander BASE as being stupid and deadly.

Lovin' life, my leg's almost 100%!

K

sabre210
January 26th, 2004, 07:49 PM
Hello Nick

For what it's worth, i strongly believe the list is essential reading in it's present format and with it's current accessability. I read the list regularly from start to finish; and did so before i embarked on the BASE rollercoaster. There is so much information there, so many lessons to be learned, it would be a real tragedy to hide this from view.

I understand what Jason is saying, and of course there is a trade off when you make this kind of information available to all (and in particular lazy journalists). Yes the data is open to be abused and sensationalised, but that negative is far out-weighed, in my opinion, by the huge benefits the list can bring to BASE jumpers of all levels and anyone considering it as a sport.

In addition I feel the list is a testimony to every single person lost to BASE. Each and everyone of the people on that list has contributed some degree to the evolution of the sport, so i feel it's appropriate that a record of their lives and deaths is made available to all who should want to see it.

I too have noticed how often News reports and articles refer to the 70+ deaths in the sport without contextualising these figures. However perhaps if the list wasn't available they might be claiming there to be far more. Would a journalist go to the trouble of categorising Dwains tragic demise as a skydive or a BASE jump? Would the recent Cave fatality be lumped in there to flesh out the figures for added tabloid clout? At least with the list there is a defined, considered, unambiguous figure which they can look to and which we (well you actually Nick) control to a certain degree.

We live in an age where information is denied to us constantly, misinformation is fed to us daily, history is being twisted and distorted and re-written. Let's not contribute to this orwellian hell hole by hiding facts. Let the record stand so that it's there for those who chose to want to know, and so we can point to it when it's ignored.

"the list is an absolute good. the list is life"

i thank you.

Small
January 27th, 2004, 08:02 AM
Nick,

I remember reading the list several years ago as a newbie skydiver with an interest in BASE. It was a frightening read and IMHO that's a good thing because it curbed my enthusiasm. From a distance BASE can look glamorous and the list is an important balance to that.

Several years later, as a newbie BASE jumper, the list still makes for frightening reading but that's still a good thing because now it reminds me of what can go wrong.

I have a friend who keeps a printout of the list in his caravan at the dz and gives it to anyone that's making noises about BASE and from what others have said that's quite a common thing.

Thank you for all your work and please don't take it offline.

Gus

Nick_D
January 27th, 2004, 11:07 PM
Thanks, Faber, for mentioning the graveyard aspect of the list. I've always been reluctant to do so. This is a result of the list I didn’t fully anticipate, and it means a lot to me too. When I look at what the list has become (the first one I published had only six names on it) I can’t help but find the irony in my promoting BASE all these years, and at the same time through the list, I’ve probably prevented more BASE jumps than anyone else . . .

Sabre210, thank you, for your well-written thoughts concerning the list. I will keep it on the net for the foreseeable future. Thanks Gus and Sweet K and Mick and everyone else.

The Reaper and the Number. . .

I took the Reaper graphic down when I started thinking about the moms, and the dads, the sisters, the bothers, and the friends who happen upon the list and are close to one of the jumpers. It started with sometimes I’d look at the Reaper and think that’s okay, it’s BASE, it’s cool, it’s part of our culture. Other times I’d look at it and it seemed flippant and/or disrespectful.

When I first started writing about BASE jumping in the Fixed Object Journal, I promised myself two things. I’d never dumb it down for the masses, and I’d always be really careful what I wrote because people will believe it. The first time I went to Moe Villetto’s house I couldn’t help notice it had death written all over it. Where others had a lamp Moe had a skull. I hadn’t been there ten minutes and he’s showing my autopsy photos. His doormat is done in a Black Death motif and his doorbell goes Dong - Da - Dong Dong.

So I asked him, “Hey Moe, what’s with all the death stuff?” He turned to me and said very seriously, “you don’t get it, Nick, death is an education tool.”

I think I should put the Reaper graphic back up too . . .

Nick D:-)
BASE 194

Nick_D
January 31st, 2004, 01:39 AM
>>>ps Nick What happened to the grim reaper holding the cristal ball with the number in it can you bring that back?...<<<

It's (it's a she this time) is up . . .

http://www.basefatalities.info/

Nick D:-)
BASE 194