Ddog's SkyMag Conundrum

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>I offer these extraordinary jumpers, who have made substantial
>contributions to BASE:
>Mark Hewitt
>Dennis McGlynn
>Will Oxx
>Martin Tilley
>Moe Viletto
>Todd Shoebotham
>Robin Heid

I have heard some of the names, but what have they done?

Atle

[imported_Mac]

>I have heard some of the names, but what have they done?


Alot - but without as much video and public forum presence?

Just my worthless 2 groats worth.........


Peace to DW.........

[Yuri]

Avery,

I will gladly sign my name under the following statement:

>"Dwain has contributed far more to our sport than any other single
>individual, EVER".

Further on, i will respectfully agree that you were asleep during the past decade.

There are many remarkable individuals in this sport, but DW clearly stands out as the brightest jumper of the last few years. Just to sum it up briefly: undoubtly the best BASE jumper in the world that pushed pretty much every limit of the sport light years ahead and shared his knowledge and experiense with others so extensively that most of us can now push the same limits a bit further. A lot further, actually. You just have to be willing to learn from somebody who is far better than you - not an easy task for an average base jumper.

I feel this subject touches into basic psychology. It would be interesting to analyze why IPBC comps died out and if it had anything to do with Slim and DW being the best... ;-)

Plenty of respect to everybody on the list.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[base428]

Avery, your name should be on that list also!

I think a more appropriate term for Dwain would be "father of BASE aerials", although jumpers have been doing aerials for many, many years.

The jumpers on Avery's list above were BASE jumping when some of you were still in diapers.....longevity in our sport is something I truly admire.

------------
Jason Bell (BASE428)
Email: jbell@vertical-visions.com
Web: www.vertical-visions.com or www.bridgeday.info

[imported_Tom Aiello]

> but without as much video and public forum presence?

I found Dwain's jumping quite a bit more impressive than it's public perception. I think his reputation captured less than half of how good he really was.

I was far from his constant companion, but I did do enough jumps with him to know that his skill set far exceeded his publicity.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[imported_Tom Aiello]

Don't you think it's a little inappropriate to take issue with good things said about someone as a memorial?

The purpose of eulogizing is to say all the great things you can about someone, to help everyone remember them in the best possible way. A certain amount of hyperbole is expected, and acceptable, at times, and the eulogization of a fallen friend is definitely one of those times.

For the record, I believe that Dwain Weston was, at the time of his death and for several years before, the best BASE jumper on earth.

I also believe that he, and everyone else you have listed (except for that Yuri guy, who is he, anyway?) has given far more to this sport than I will ever be able to.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[imported_badenhop]

Tom,
No, I don't think is is inappropriate. I made many jumps with Dwain. (I keep an accurate log-book of each and every BASE jump I make). He sure was a gifted jumper, and if I had been present, I would have had good things to say about him at a memorial. This post is addressed to one person in particular, and poses a direct question about a firm statement which I find untrue, and an insult to many LIVING jumpers. There will never be any single individual who will deserve the title of 'Greatest Contributor', as it is the collective effort of all BASE jumpers to advance the sport. There is only one true father of our sport, and even he made an error which went against advice that he himself would have given, and it cost him his life. There is a huge difference between being highly skilled in certain areas, and being the biggest contributer EVER. And the best of the best have come and gone. Nik was the best, but made a choice that was not recommended, and unwise, cost him his life. Skypunk was the best, but an error in judgement cost him his life. Rob was the best, but even against advice from more experienced jumpers, made a choice that cost him his life. I could go on, there are many dead BASE jumpers whom many of us knew and respected. Some of the best died outside BASE jumping. Frank was the best, but it was not a BASE jump that killed him. It brings up the case of Dwain, who died outside the sport of BASE jumping. I have seen with my own eyes, Dwain doing fantastic BASE jumps. I have also seen with my own eyes, Dwain just scrape through by a hair. Are there any of us who have not done both?

An aside to Yuri,
In another forum, you wrote:

Yo !
Just like any other pilot, a birdman ought to look in front of him and avoid obstacles - be that a wall, a canopy or another birdman. Not quite a rocket science, just basic VFR ;-) You have unbelievable amount of control in a wingsuit - something most jumpers don't understand until they begin to fly.
Seriously, though: it is naturally very easy to avoid things in front and under you........snip
bsbd!
Yuri.

Did Dwain go out of his way to hit that bridge?
(Ddog, any comment?).

If my partners and I had not created the platform known as the IPBC, then many jumpers would not have had the inspiration to be the best, Dwain included. Yes, he was one of our champions, and it gave Dennis McGlynn no greater pleasure than to be beaten.
(Or else someone else would have started a BASE competition, and you could hammer them for trying to bring organization into the chaotic world of BASE). I myself am just an average BASE jumper. Not outstanding by any measure, been to the hospital, pulled off a couple dangerous tricks here and there, and had some close calls. I am alive today, but may not survive my next jump. I hope nobody jumps up and says I did any more than my fair share of contribution to a sport that I have a strong passion for.......

[Yuri]

>Did Dwain go out of his way to hit that bridge?

On a form: i find it a bit strange that you as a moderator of BASE Board want to discuss issues that belong to a skydiving forum (or pinning your own threads on top of the board, for that matter).

On a matter: here you are touching a sensitive subject that is inappropriate to discuss on any public forum. Either you do not have all relevant information, or you act in a rather evil manner. What i posted in a wingsuit forum deals with obstacle awareness, and that is completely irrelevant in a case where a pilot is very well aware of an obstacle and arrives within two feet of his goal - a precision any experienced wingsuit flier can wish for. Any further discussion can be had in private.

>If my partners and I had not created the platform known as the

I assume this was in response to my remark? I did not talk about creation of IPBC but rather of its demise.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[imported_badenhop]

Well Yuri, you know what they say about assume....... so, assume nothing.

Form?
Okay, so it's a bit strange, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Matter?
You did not post in a wingsuit forum, it is a BASE forum on dz.com and the subject was about mid-air collisions. Are you saying that Dwain was trying to get that close to the bridge? After promising to stay a 'safe' distance from the bridge? And why should this discussion be held in private?

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>And why should this discussion be held in private?

Perhaps it is in the best interest of our sport, and it's future, to have the discussion in private.

Perhaps privacy will help protect those who are friends of our sport (or friends of each of us individually), who are still alive and have things to lose.

Dwain is gone. I believe our task now is to comfort, help, and protect those who remain. Having spoken with Dwain a bit after Nik's death, I am certain he would feel the same way.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[imported_Tom Aiello]

Disclaimer: I haven't read the article, so all I'm working from is the quotes Avery provided above. (Anyone want to email it to me?)

>...a firm statement which I find untrue, and an insult to many LIVING jumpers.

I doubt that it was meant as an insult to anyone. It sounds to me more like a case of offering tribute to the fallen.

I count everyone who has posted to this thread (what's that, three people?), as well as Doug, as friends. I hope you think of each other the same way. I sincerely hope that the death of another friend will not come between us any more than it already has.

Is there any way we can all just agree to disagree, and move on?

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[d-dog]

Tom just alerted me to the latest "BASE jumpers having ego-stroking problems" issue to arise in the wildlands of the bitch board. After I stopped laughing about how totally idiotic the entire discussion is, I was able to compose myself enough to sit and write these words.

I've not see Skydiving yet, so I'm in the dark. The only words I shared with Sue at the magazine were during email conversation in which I (and several other folks) were encouraging her to write some sort of article regarding Dwain's death. Something more than "Dwain died, blah blah." Many of us were also asking her to eschew using the pathetic little weasel as the author of this particular article.

Thus, Sue had asked me (to paraphrase as I choose not to share private email in a public forum) "why should we waste valuable column inches covering Dwain beyond just saying that he died?" To which I replied, I think he's contributed more than any other single person to the sport of BASE.

Am I biased? Well, gosh golly I suppose I am. Dwain taught me to jump and over the years, I jumped alot with him (Avery, I log every jump to minute detail as well, does that make my cock just a big longer right alongside yours?), I hung out with him alot, I considered him my best friend (well I guess dear old Ray and JJ get their Jockeys in a bundle over that one, as if I could give a f u c k what they think about my relationship with Dwain). I tried my best to prevent what happened in Colorado, and I failed. I'll be haunted by those events every day of my life, until the day I die. Nothing anybody says - least of all the pathetic, immature whining of emotional toddlers like JJ - has the slightest impact on any of this.

So, yeah, I guess I do indeed believe based on the data I've collected in my puny 4 years in the sport of BASE that Dwain had a big impact on this sport. Want to argue about it? Go argue by yourself, I don't give a rip if you or anybody else agress or not, Avery. I don't give a bowl of urine what you think, frankly. Want to be insulted by my comment? Go for it! Want to be angered? Get angry! I could not possibly care less, either way.

Dwain's memory need not be "defended" by me or anybody else. Dwain's life, how he chose to live it, is it's own "defense" and no mere words from anybody hold a candle to the reality that was Dwain. He didn't need a manipulative, spoiled little shrew to try to "slay any dragons" for him, he was quite capable of doing what slaying needed to be done all by himself. Sadly, the one "dragon" he could not slay by himself was lead to his door by the same person who now claims to "defend" his memory from the harsh light of reality and of choice.

But now he's dead, and words won't bring him back. If you think he was a come-lately punk focused on publicity and not worthy of respect, well that sure says alot about your own personal insecurities now doesn't it? Jealousy and envy are easy emotions to spot, and ugly ones to watch parade across the public stage. Did you hear that, JJ?

As to the rest of the implied content of this thread, well anybody who hasn't heard what truly happened in Colorado is either living in a concrete bunker without news access, or is simply in denial about reality for one reason or another and we sure know a few of those who spouted their vitriol in public as a bulwark towards their walls of denial. Anybody else who slipped through the firestorm of truth intersecting the false patina of "grief," well my email address is pretty well known and the words I posted at DZ.com continue to reside on my hard drive and are available for anyone who is able to accept the reality of Dwain's choice without pissing themselves in their rush to stick their head in the soft sand of denial.

I guess that the censors really think it is "too sensitive" to discuss in public. Whatever, I don't give a rip one way or another any more. I feel Dwain's (and Nik's) loss each and every day, the bleating from the sheep of the "BASE community" is about as relevant to that as a fly buzzing in my ear.

D-d0g

[imported_Mac]

>> but without as much video and public forum presence?
>
>I found Dwain's jumping quite a bit more impressive than it's
>public perception. I think his reputation captured less than
>half of how good he really was.
>
>I was far from his constant companion, but I did do enough
>jumps with him to know that his skill set far exceeded his
>publicity.
>
>--Tom Aiello
>tbaiello@mac.com


Sorry it was with no disrespect I answered this - I was just trying to make a point that the others on that list were not as well known - (apologies this has moved slightly off thread)! ;-)

be safe all...........

[imported_badenhop]

Tom, the article in SkyMag is very long, much too much for me to type out to send you. Wish I could, but I'm a hunt and peck typist. The story is well written, and pages long. On the final page is a quote from Doug, which he just confirmed in his post, that Dwain contributed more to this sport (BASE) than any other person ever. My initial post was just to pose a question to Ddog to back that statement up. I agree, we are all BASE jumpers, and thus share a kinship. But it is like a family, you do not get to choose what family you are born into. There are some in our BASE community who are intelligent, whacked, disagreeable, ornery, ignorant, immoral, spirited, individual, you name it, they are here. I think it would be impossible for us all to just 'get along'.
I had hoped to entice a tangible response from Ddog, specifically the exact points and merits which brought him to the conclusion that DW had contributed so much to our sport, in fact "THE MOST". Ddog did not successfully give an answer. What he gave was a long dissertation with dragons and shrews and all the rest. Huh? Ddog's post reads more like a fairy tail? Why is it that he cannot give a straight answer? Ddog, how about plain modern English?
Last month, Ddog made some reference to suggest that DW may have taken his own life on purpose, I do not believe that theory. This month, I read that it is his opinion that DW was the greatest! How do those two ideas not seem to meet?
If DW wanted to end it all, why not down some dark alley?
If he was so great, why would he use such a public performance?
These concepts to me just do not make sense. I seek answers and truth. If there are any in our presense who cannot handle the truth, then it is my opinion that they are in the wrong sport. What seems to be the truth to me is that BASE, and parachuting in general, is dangerous. The best of the best can make mistakes which can lead to death. Why should I not voice my opinion publicly? Who should I protect? The dead, or the would be's that will follow in the footsteps of "greatness" only to find out just too late that it is not so easy?

[imported_Tom Aiello]

Do you know who wrote the article? I'll try to find a copy somewhere.

I was thinking that the event sponsors could be facing legal action, and might not appreciate public discussion which could be used to cast aspersions on their choice of jumpers for the load. They gave a lot to all of us by giving us the event. I think we owe them some consideration for it.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[imported_badenhop]

The story is in the November issue of Skydiving Magazine. The article was written by Robin Heid. What the sponsors may be facing does not in the least change the facts.

[Yuri]

Avery,

You don't make any sense here, and apparently lack the information about this event. I am sending you a private em and consider this public discussion closed.

Edited: Avery, all em addresses i had for you bounced. Let me know what's your current email.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[Tree]

What I think made DW the BEST, ever.

Aerials, and not just flips "Gainers are lame"! He and a few others) made aerials a dicipline, not just a show off move.

Low pulls

Aerials + Low pulls

Skysurf BASE. Did he ever even skydive a board?

Birdman through the wires. Never before, probably never again.

Willingness to talk to anyone about anything. He sure loved to share info.

Never got broken up in 1,200 + BASE jumps. Unheard of.

Super technical, analytical.

Oh yeah, the hundreds of other totally sick jumps that most people do a couple times in their whole career.

The others on Avery's list have all made contributions, many to gear, some to getting the sport started in the old days, single inventions that saved lives, etc. They all have my respect. But DW was just truly gifted in all aspects of the sport. I doubt that we will see another like him anytime soon. I further bet anyone, that not a single jumper now living, or that ever comes along could make the jumps in DW's log book and live through the first 500, much less the second 500. That is a leagacy that will stand the test of time. Someone should publish it.

Respect!

Tree

[imported_badenhop]

Hello,
My email address is:
email@averybadenhop.com

I'm pretty sure I have the information about the event. There were many people there, they are talking. There are the organizers who had expectations. There is the published story in the Skydiving Magazine. Finally, from a very graphic standpoint, there is the video.

[Ray Losli]

DDDD-Dog Quote "Based on data I've collected in my puny 4 years in the sport of BASE jumping."
Whats up you bullshit artist?? I called DJ just now and made him go home and look in his log book to check. Your first BASE jump was on July 14 2001 Is getting that hard to keep it all strait in your head??? looking forward to seeing more Lies and Drama Stories.
...Ray Losli

[imported_badenhop]

>Mark Hewitt
Line-over release modification, saved countless lives.
Certainly one of the most important people in BASE history.

>Dennis McGlynn
Had the vision to bring BASE out of the bushes in the middle of the night,
and bring our sport into the daylight, for public display.

>Will Oxx
>Martin Tilley
>Moe Viletto
Years of safety advocacy, for which we should all be thankfull.

>Adam Filippino
>Marta Empinotti
Years and years of product development and advancement.

>Todd Shoebotham
>Anne Helliwell
Years and years of product development and advancement,
also BR can take credit for the Tail-Gate being standard BASE equipment.

>Stein Edvardsen
The spearhead of the Norwegian BASE Foundation.

>Yuri Kusnetsov
Years of inspiration for average BASE jumpers
including those aspiring to master BirdMan BASE.

>Robin Heid
Years of dedicated pro-BASE journalism.

All these people have done more than I have mentioned, and there are many more to be added to the list of who has made major contributions to our sport. The first next name that comes to mind is Nick Di Giovanni, and maybe when he sits down and writes that book about the history of BASE, he will get them all in there.

[ad]

Thanks for the info.

Atle

[JJ]

Avery,

Thank you for insitgating this amusing topic and provoking the obviously emotionally distraught. Has been an entertaining read. :-)

JJ

[d-dog]

Hahahaha! Oh, Ray, dear simple Ray. Go fight with yourself, I've no interest. I once considered you a friend, but now I know why Nik warned me so much about you. He was right, as were so many people who warned me about you - including Dwain.

Edit to initial post: "my three years and change in BASE." Gosh, that sure changes things alot, eh?

Cheers,

D. Spink

[JJ]

I think someone has a problem with their arithamatic...

JJ:+

[base587]

Avery

Can you please "unpin" this thread and let it drift down (or back up) the posting hierarchy on its own merit.

It makes me sick reading all of these divisive posts.

Thanks, Spence

[Ray Losli]

This is far from the original question posted BUT.........
Doggy...I really have know idea what you are talking about. People warning you about me. I must be one hell of a scary guy. I may be simple, but I like that. It seams to be an honest way to present my self, and run my life... What I really want to do is get down to brass tacks and understand your total true untold emotional feeling about Dwain. In the past you have made several verbal comments about Karin the latest one, Quote " He didn't need a manipulative spoiled little shrew to try to "slay any dragons" for him." MEOW... dude I mean what is it with you. You act like a Jealous Chic. Why be angry at Karin ? This woman has only been nice to you as far I can see, and that is coming from a guy who, Blew Chips in her, Make-up Bag, (that's a good story I will tell later), and she is still a good friend to me. OH.. I forgot about your insane theory that Karin drove Dwain to suicide. Do you feel like she came between you and Dwain. Why don't you just say it. You Were In Love With, Dwain. It's OK, Man just get it off your chest and fess up. I Can't Be The Only One Thinking This. No one is jealous of you being friends with the man, it just the Over Kill of the Drama that you invent, and surrounded yourself with after Nick went In and Dwain went In. I and JJ did attack you after that public post that stated "Dwain committed suicide" and you alone could not prevent or stop him from flying to his death. What Did You Expect Us To do ?? We Don't Hate You. but Man that was Crazy Talk. Dude, you are on Venus, and I cannot relate to you.
your friend ...Ray...

[imported_Tom Aiello]

>Can you please "unpin" this thread and let it drift down (or
>back up) the posting hierarchy on its own merit.
>
>It makes me sick reading all of these divisive posts.

Me too.

--Tom Aiello
tbaiello@mac.com

[Ray Losli]

Wow this posting is becoming a bad habit... HE HE
To the first Question asked, and Not to try to enter the world of the physic and try to read the thoughts of the dead, but I don't think that Dwain would be to comfortable being compared to Carl Boenish ( Not To Speak For Dwain ) or Doug, but I have heard Dwain talk about him. I don't think he idolized Carl, but there was defiantly some respect there when he talked about him. He was no father of BASE but he did definitely come ( Into His Own ) as a jumper. And deserves his own page in the book of BASE.
Short,Fast and furious stint as a BASE jumper. Most definitely. To short YES . Fast and furious yes but that's the only way he knew how to do it. Man he burned fast hot and bright.. Follow the rules, sometimes yes, sometimes No. It was pretty weird though. He defiantly came full circle as a jumper. Starting out testing the waters of what was possible. To going Balls out and felling indestructible and doing jumps that a lot of people thought trying but to be honest were to big of pussies to do it. F---ing scary S--t I know that because I am a big pussy. Then he actually started pacing him self ( Believe it or not.) After Slim pounded in he started behaving a little, backing off a little and having more respect for his own life. No one I think saw that coming when he screwed up at Royal Gorge, BUT most of experienced people there were not surprised. Stunned Yes. Pissed Off , YES. Felt that empty spot inside when he was gone, O hell yes.
Oh F--k I am rambling again. so I will cut this off. Dwain was no Father of Base but he was one of the best ever, and it will be a long time before we see someone with that kind of talent again.
...Ray Losli

[imported_badenhop]

No message

[imported_badenhop]

Dear friends and others, BASE brothers and sisters alike:
I come home from work today to a pile of emails, none of them had the negative tone I may have expected. They came from far and wide, many from people I had not heard from for some time. Thank you to those of you who emailed me today, I have read all your emails, and take each one to heart. To all of you, I urge you to THINK about the value of your mortal life! It will end, when and how you may not ultimately have the final say in, but the more thought you put into how important YOU are, the longer you may live. Certainly YOU are important to those who love you, depend on you, and have a kinship with you. I do not regret for one second this thread I have started, the responses it has generated, or thoughts it has provoked. If you are offended by truth, death, and any discussion about either, I urge you to find a different sport. Dwain Weston was a unique individual, he will be missed. I hope the younger generation of jumpers will take some time to think about gravity, parachutes, and soft pink human flesh, and pulse, and their loved ones. The older generation of surviving BASE jumpers must have these thoughts, thus their survival. Actions and circumstances beyond our control can intervene at any moment, and POOF, GONE! Now this thread will take its course into oblivion, if I have had an impact on just one person, and they use their head to save their own skin, it is well worth the grief and thought provocation.

[imported_badenhop]

I just got my November issue of Skydiving Magazine. There is quite a write up on the Go Fast Games from Royal Gorge. It must have been loads of fun. Too bad I missed it, but I was having my own fun on the other side of the planet, see next month's SkyMag issue. Too bad also, for the event's tragic ending. What a terrible loss of life, and in such a fashion. I'm sure many of us anticipate our eternal confrontation with our fallen brother, so we may ask the all important "why" question. Dwain certainly was charmed in his BASE endeavors, and he left a burble of infamy in this place and that. I will not discredit him, he deserves no dishonor, he paid the ultimate price for his final miscalculation.
This post is made in search of clarification. Ddog got the last word in, and it goes like this: "Dwain has contributed far more to our sport than any other single individual, EVER". And "He was not just a BASE jumper, he was a father of our sport just as much as Carl (Boenish) was".
WOW! That is a remarkable statement! Ddog, respectfully, I ask you to substantiate your assertion. What exactly was it that Dwain did in his short, fast and furious stint as a BASE jumper to elevate him to such stature? How is it that you reach your conclusion? Was I asleep during the past decade and missed something? How long have you been BASE jumping Ddog? What about your own theory last month on Dwains purpose on that ill-fated jump? It is quite an enigma.
Ddog, are you aware of who you don't know?
I offer these extraordinary jumpers, who have made substantial contributions to BASE:
Mark Hewitt
Dennis McGlynn
Will Oxx
Martin Tilley
Adam Filippino
Moe Viletto
Stein Edvardsen
Yuri Kusnetsov
Todd Shoebotham
Robin Heid
Marta Empinotti
Anne Helliwell
That is just the first dozen who come to mind. I can think of many more in time, and each one with a contribution which exceeds that of the late great Dwain Weston, God rest his soul.
Once again, I do not mean to insult a dead man, but he was no hero, and his last shot at enlarging his ego will surely set us back.