Weak stomach

[MT]

Does anyone else find the advertising banner which uses the picture of one of the towers being hit and people climbing out a bit sick?

:9

[guest]

yeah. I know we're only a bunch of over sensitive seppo BASE jumpers and all but I do think it's a little tasteless.

[guest]

Whats this advertising - i have not seen this.....


&-)

[guest]

There are many tactics one can use to sell a product. Fear can be a very useful tool in selling a product that is for safety.

I don't think this is a tasteless ad so much as maybe a misguided one. Everyone now understands the harsh realities we are facing these days. I don't think anyone needs to be reminded of what can and has happened.

Perhaps instead of selling with fear by using these distressing images, this product should be sold from the stand point of safety instead.

Just a thought.

Peace and Love

M

[guest]

Mick,
When I followed the links, I see you are involved with this nonsense.

Please call me.

Adam

[guest]

I tend to have a pretty sick mind &-) but even I find this ad completely tasteless and inappropriate.

I'm sure the idea of a "building escape" parachute system could be very useful for future safety in highrise buildings, but the fact that these have appeared so quickly on the market after the Sept. 11 tragedy would make me think that not much thought or effort has been put into the design of such systems - which makes it seem that the people selling these systems are much more concerned with making a quick buck than actually trying to help anyone. I sincerely hope that I am wrong, but if I'm not then this is very sad...

Blue Skies Black Death,
Keely

[web]

i agree....and the fact that the banner links back to the BLINC Store leads me to make a plea to:


Mick! this is in POOR TASTE! please pull it!

[imported_mknutson]

Please email me and explain "Sales Rep".

[crwper]

I agree.

For me it just feels like that's not what this board is about, and not what our sport is about. I jump off of stuff because it gives me a taste of freedom.

These banners which read "Prepare yourself for anything" seem to be feeding on fear, which for me is the exact opposite of freedom.

It's funny because I'm usually pretty open about these things, but this one makes me sick, and I can't explain why.

Michael

[guest]

It's odd, I also have one of those sick and twisted minds with the sense of humor to match and am open about stuff like this but the first time i saw this it just felt wierd. It seems appropriate on the news (I don't expect much out of them anyways) but just seems wierd here. From the marketing standpoint I can see the "selling by fear" techniques but I just expect a little more out of this group than what I do from the general public.
Later
Gabe

[gowaylow]

I like the add mick. keep it
It is just a shot of a bunch of want to be BASE jumpers looking over the edge.
They could be alive to day if they had a system like you guys are proposing.


have a go way low day :*

[Tom B]

Following is the sales pitch found at

http://www.blincmagazine.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BS&Product_Code=BES&Category_Code=BES

The text is as follows:

Building Escape System

Quantity in Basket: none
Code: BES
Price: $945.00
Shipping Weight: 20.00 pounds




Quantity:

B.E.S. Detail Page.

It is always sad when it takes a tragedy to spur ideas into action. The recent events in our country make it clear that we need an alternate method to escape tall buildings when all the conventional methods have failed.

Henry Boger, and Brian Choppin have combined forces to create a company who's sole purpose is to save lives. We are happy to contribute with the first ever, publicly available building escape system designed specifically for escaping tall structures. The B.E.S. is no larger than a briefcase, durable enough to last for ten years with no service, unaffected by weather, and ready to go at any time. For all those who have asked the question, "is there a way?", the answer is yes. We can provide a system that can be stored anywhere, purchased by anyone, requires no prior knowledge of skydiving, or BASE jumping, and best of all requires no course of instruction to operate. If the moment ever arrives when a person wishes to use their B.E.S. all they need to do is open the sealed container follow the simple emergency instructions, and choose life.

The B.E.S. is available to individuals, companies, and building owners. Quantity discounts are available for companies wishing to install B.E.S. emergency stations with up to 50 units per station.

[guest]

I see where this thread is headed, let's keep it on track.....

The issue is not the practicality or usefulness of this product; in fact god bless capitalism and America.


The issue is what some (including myself) feel to be the extremely poor taste of the link. That's all. Go ahead and market whatever product you want, but please don't use this type of advertising. Even if you think I'm full of @$#^@ on this issue, imagine for a second how it looks, to see an ad for this type of item that uses this tragedy in this way. It makes you LOOK like you're trying to cash in on it, which makes you guys LOOK like friggin assholes. I emphasize "look" 'cause I don't know you guys but you seem serious about your product from the above post. It also makes all BASE jumpers look like friggin assholes too (no denying some of us are tho, you got me there).

Please change this link, Mick.

[guest]

Anyone ever hear of contempt prior to investigation? What exactly is the issue? It seams kind of ironic that a bunch of base jumpers, who run around screaming about a lack of freedom, are the first ones to stand up and yell, "limit freedom".

The natural state of the human animal is to forget that which is traumatic. It’s because of this tendency that we choose this type of banner.

We do not want people to forget, we want those that could benefit from this system to be stirred into action. Those that it really scares are probably the ones that will benefit the most from having one.

An awful lot of effort and time went into the design of this system. Make no mistake; it is not a base rig. It has only one purpose, save the lives of non-base jumpers when all other methods have failed.

It takes a lot of hypocritical gall to bitch about our chosen method of advertising, when our very existence defies the normal persons idea of acceptable. You all sound like a bunch of wuffo's.

Wuffo you use that type of advertising. Wuffo you trying to cash in on that. Wuffo you being a friggin arshole.

Get a grip; it's a legitimate product, using a well thought out advertising campaign that will save lives if people choose to avail themselves of the opportunity.
To bad it’s scary.
Not remembering the gruesome reality is not the way to prevent it from happening again.

That’s third grade stuff.

Remind people about the consequences of being Victims, and then give them the choice to be proactive and live. Let them make the choice with all the reality the situation deserves. It took a law to get people to wear seatbelts.

There is nothing wrong with reminding people that the reality of what happened sucks. I want people to think, “golly, if only that person had, had a parachute”. Yes, if only.

It’s kind of interesting to find myself responding, I do not really expect it to make much of a difference. Base jumpers as a whole are to damn hard to please. Everyone knows best, and everyone is an expert. It is nice though, I get to evaluate my reasons for using this method, and conclude that it is working exactly as designed. May every base rig I jump do the same!

Brian Choppin

[imported_mknutson]

Well I guess I am confused by the "word" "link". Do you mean the banners dipictions? Or the fact that there is a banner at all, the leads to another page?

Please be clear.

[MT]

Come on Brian for the sales pitch and Mick for accepting the banner,

How can you justify a picture of the worst terrorist atrocity in your country as a method to sell your "building escape system"?

1) Mick - do the right thing and take this picture of mothers, fathers, wifes, husbands and people just like me and you who are still buried in rubble and not afforded a decent burial yet off this previously honourable board. Consider those left behind.

2) Brian - wake up and smell the coffee. There are dozens of threads on the practicalities of these escape systems, that isn't what's being discussed here. What's being discussed is pure bad taste and the general consenses is that this is rock bottom. By the way freedom doesn't excuse bad choices it just allows them.

There is a time and a place for everything - here and now is not the time for this. Just my humble opinion.

Martin

[base615]

I agree that people may have benefited from a rig and indeed may do in the future. I know of 2 Bank of New York guys in Canary Wharf (Britains big building centre) who have bought rigs.

However, everything you wrote in defence hints at you doing this purely because you want to help people out and don't want to see this happen again, I think the primary motive here is to make some bucks or else you'd be selling them at cost.

I'm perfectly at ease with this sort of product and advertising campaign but when answering peoples criticisms why not come clean and say there's a market that you see some money in.

Craig

[guest]

When I don't like what I see on tv because, for what ever reason, believe it is in bad taste, poor form or just plain "not right," I change channel or turn it off.

When I am a member of a banner exchange that shows a banner on a website in which I have some imput, and I believe a particular banner is in bad taste, poor form or just plain "not right," I can delete the code and leave the banner exchange.

I am lucky that I can see, understand and keep both the positive and negative points of view in my mind at the same time, this doesn't mean I have to agree to either of them.

Unfortunately, what I am really seeing is capitalism at its worst. The banner is sick and disrespectful to the families and loved ones of those unfortunate people in the photo.

The idea of a building escape chute has merit, but, really?....Put it into perspective!

The banner exchange has breached the trust I once had in it to allow sound images to be displayed on the site I administer.

Ken Miller
www.basejump.org
+61418949949
miller280@nospamyahoo.com

[crwper]

There's no hypocrisy here. No one is limiting your freedom to use this form of advertising. What I see is just a lot of people telling you that they think your ads are in poor taste.

I'm sure a skillful marketer could successfully navigate the hazards involved in this kind of advertising and wind up with a successful marketing campaign, but to me this doesn't look like a skillful advertisement. It seems to me that you are in way over your head with the kind of ad you have chosen.

In my humble, non-marketer, opinion what you need is to use a little more subtlety. I think what makes me ill about your ads is the sledgehammer approach you've taken to what is still a fairly delicate subject. I'm sure you could achieve exactly the effect you're looking for -- reminding everyone of the terrible events which have taken place -- without making people sick.

Michael

[guest]

>Anyone ever hear of contempt prior to
>investigation? What exactly is the issue? It
>seams kind of ironic that a bunch of base
>jumpers, who run around screaming about a lack
>of freedom, are the first ones to stand up and
>yell, "limit freedom".

I don't think anyone on this board has said "limit freedom", Brian. We are exercising our right to freedom of speech to say what we think of your ad. Obviously this board is run by Mick Knutson, and he can put anything he wants on here. However he has made it a public board, so anyone can say what they think of what he puts on here. If he chooses to represent his BASE Board in this manner, that is his choice, but that doesn't mean everyone has to agree that it is a good idea to put pictures of dead people on here to sell a product. And of course no one will force us to keep reading the BASE Board if we are so offended by it.


>The natural state of the human animal is to
>forget that which is traumatic. It’s

Now do you really think ANYONE needs to be reminded of what happened at the WTC??? Somehow I don't think any human is going to forget about that, no matter how traumatic it may have been.


>We do not want people to forget, we want those
>that could benefit from this system to be
>stirred into action. Those that it really
>scares are probably the ones that will benefit
>the most from having one.

Your marketing campaign is only going to appeal to people who are controlled by fear, and anyone who is controlled by fear is probably not going to benefit much from this system. People who are controlled by logic may benefit from such a system, but those people would shop around and buy from a company who has obviously researched their product and done extensive testing in a situation similar to what it may actually be used for. And no logical person would buy this system from a company using your marketing tactics, with no mention of RELEVANT testing.

Now for all I know, you may have actually done a lot of testing and worked really hard to make this product as safe as possible, but your choice of representation is not conveying that message in any way. And THAT is the issue in this thread - your choice of representation.

And if you really are out to make a good product, then good luck to you...

Peace,
Keely }>
shotgun@uia.net

[guest]

Brian and Mick -

You are lucky you haven't been to NYC when the Twins collapsed; you are lucky you didn't have best friends working in the buildings. I did.

In no way I'm trying to pass judgements on you, or tell you what is right or wrong. You decide it for yourself.

As for myself, I will not be visiting this board in the near future...at least until we are done with this advertising campaign (which is, btw, very well-thought through from a marketing standpoint).

Good Luck to You in your business and Peace to all,

S.

[guest]

I find that I react defensively and from a place of ego more often than I like. I see where my last post shows some examples of that. Thanks for the input; I am always looking for ways to improve my interface with the universe.

The kind of responses that have gone up since my last post are the kind of responses I am both looking for and receptive to. Responsible, signed opinions, from people I respect.

We (I) displayed the banner here for several reasons, including to see how people would react. I will own that the ads were designed for shock value, and that they could be too much for this time and place in history.

There is a need for this product in the world. I can make a difference. This is a place where I can both give to the world, and make a living at the same time. That feels great to me!

Thank you for the responsible responses. We are going to pull the pictures and leave the banners.

Brian
Base401@home.com

[imported_mknutson]

Please tell me what is of bad taste on these 2 images:

http://www.blincmagazine.com/images/advertisers/wtc_large1.gif

http://www.blincmagazine.com/images/advertisers/wtc_tower1.gif

[hr]
I do not wish to put things out that "everyone" is offended by, but you people are ##### bitching up a storm, and have obviously jumped on the bitching bandwagon, without looking at modifications that have been made. So you bitching is unsubstantiated as it does not apply. If you still have a bitch, then it better be on the current facts.

[skydvr18]

*sighs* All of this just proves my philosophy on the general public...people will never be satisfied!! Did I find the ad distasteful? Yes. Was it shocking? Yes. Would "I" remove it? Yes. BUT...this isn't my site. I think Mick can put anything he likes on here, because it's his site. I'm sure most people would agree. I also think that people can post their messages and bitch, bitch, bitch...because yes, we do have freedom of speech. But here we are, with an awesome site for BASE jumpers, an awesome message board to communicate with others, tons of info on BASE jumping, pictures, articles, etc., and yet what do we do? Bitch about a banner!! If you don't like it, ignore it. It was changed, and people were still bitching about the old one...they hadn't even noticed that it had been changed!! Which just proves another philosophy of mine...people love to bitch!! What's going on in your lives that you have to bitch about one little picture that flashed on your screen for a split second? I know that there are bigger things in my life. I can shrug it off, put it in the back of my mind, and ignore it the next time I log on. I don't gawk at it and dwell on it to the point that I have to post a message. You might have the right to bitch, but why do it JUST because you can? Is it REALLY necessary? And who cares if they are trying to make money. Is it affecting you?? No. GET OVER IT PEOPLE!!!!

This is the BASE Board. Why don't we stick to BASE jumping, shall we? C-ya!!

Blue Skies,
Josh

[guest]

Mick,

I see my previous post is gone without trace. Good business ethics indeed ;)

S.

[guest]

Nope, my fault. My sincere apologies...

[guest]

>know that there are bigger things in my life. I
>can shrug it off, put it in the back of my mind,
>and ignore it the next time I log on. I don't
>gawk at it and dwell on it to the point that I
>have to post a message. You might have the

Hmmm... just like you didn't dwell on this thread to the point that you had to post a message? Sorry Josh, I just couldn't help laughing at your own contradiction. Guess you just needed SOMETHING to bitch about ;-)

Blue Skies,
Keely

[gowaylow]

Don't pull the banner!!!!
That is what they want you to do.
Instead, pull all the other banners and make that the only one that comes up.
If they want to bitch give them something to bitch about.
Then you can just sit back and laugh. like this HA HA HA HA HA.
see I feel much better. :*

have a Go Way Low day

[guest]

advertising aside, what are the precautions being made to keep little johnny and his high school buddies who know about mom's or dad's or whoever's safety building jumping rig from getting their hands on it and using it for recreational purposes? not to say that there is not a place for this type of device but kids will be kids and had i known about such a device already in my dads office on the 36th floor when i was a young ,daring, immortal high school cool and groovy want to be, well it would not have been a question of if, just when.
if in the future these devices become common place, how will our sport fair from it? will we be ready when little johnny slams into a moving bus in downtown killing himself and maybe others in the bus and on the street.
this is just a thought, but then maybe it would help give us the recognition we have been looking for.

there is no doubt that had some of those folks had such a set up they would have had a chance and maybe survived.

what will the future see? i hope peace over everything else and no need for this type of escape.

curious

[imported_mknutson]

Hummmm.

I wonder how this question fairs against people who own guns, or even skydivers that have kids?

What happends if the teens get hold of the guns to act like "Leathal Weapon actors"?, what about the teens that want to act like "Drop Zone Stunt-Men"?

There are many isues to address like the ones you mentioned.

I would certainly rather have these people buy a system made by someone who knows how to parachute, than someone that does not.

[skydvr18]

No, Keely, I didn't dwell on the thread. Just like all threads, I read all of the updates, only to see it was more bitching. Since this is one of the problems I really have with people (never being satisfied and feeling the need to bitch about every little thing), I felt the need to remind everyone that we should be thankful for having this web site...and that we shouldn't bitch to Mick about his banner. Trust me...there are SEVERAL posts I could reply to and bitch about. But I don't...because I don't "need something to bitch about." This is one that just truly shows that people aren't thankful, have no respect, and that people need to GROW UP!! So keep laughing darling and post your little reply to mine, because I'm sure you'd love to get into a full-blown argument and take up space on the "BASE Board." I'm through with this one...on to bigger and better things.

Blue Skies,
Josh

[keely]

Hey dude,

Didn't mean to offend you. I was actually trying to be humorous with that post, but I can see it didn't work so well. Sorry....

Blue Skies ;-)
Keely

[guest]

Don't even start with this "We have to do it for the children!" bullshit. I'm so fu(king tired of it. People who repeat that crap really want to treat all adults like children.

Screw the children!

[crwper]

Those are way better, I think.

Michael

[crwper]

Yeah, get it straight. Josh is more advanced than the rest of us. He doesn't bitch about things. He simply "feels the need to remind people".

Michael

[guest]

>What happends if the teens get hold of the guns
>to act like "Leathal Weapon actors"?, what about
>the teens that want to act like "Drop Zone
>Stunt-Men"?

No doubt...

Aside from the obvious, "How's junior going to get out of the building without throwing a chair through a window?" question...

Maybe those people who are so worried about what their kids are getting hold of should be paying better attention to what their kids are doing instead of blaming the rest of the world for not keeping them out of harm's way.

[imported_mknutson]

Exactly!

[460]

GoWayLow personifies the joke "What do BASE jumpers use for birth control? Their personalities."

It seems all business aspects of this emergency building system are bush league, from the advertising to the short writeup on the link. To appeal to the executive, the product has to be presented professionally and the burning building picture comes across the same way as trash newspapers - through the use of shock value.

[space]

I agree with the weak stomach viewing the before banner change... but not one to judge......
here are some spacy ideas for this to work after wondering if they (marketers) had or would ever jump such a system for fun from a building....
idea#2
One size fits all (canopy), you definitely will get severely injured, heavy persons more so, IF you are lucky!
Idea #1, why not teach the potential customers the art of BASE as part of the product? Persons who learn skydiving soley for the purpose of using it as a stepping stone to BASE (Assuming they have went through proper instructional channels) are way ahead in the essential skills needed for BASE than a beginner BASEr/exp skydiver deciding he would like to try it..
this is definite food for thought.
consider it, and tell me the drawbacks...
Take care,
space.