Creating an ETHICS Document!!!!!!!

[imported_mknutson]

Creating an ETHICS Document!!!!!!!

This is going to be pertaining to BASE Jumping and also discussion of BASE Jumping on public forums like this one.

This is obviously very needed.
I would like anyone and everyone to post a "BULLET" point to be added to this ethics outline.

Please help me with this one. }>
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Thanks

Mick Knutson
BLiNC Magazine

"Everything you ever wanted to know about BASE Jumping, but didn't know who to ask."
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[guest]

1. If a climb or access to a launch is dicey, it would be improper to LEAVE a fixed rope to lower the level of difficulty of the site. This would be like chipping a hold on a climb that one couldn't do so that it might be done.
2. Just because a "local" has turned you onto a site doesn't mean it's fair game for you to take all your friends there without first telling those locals of your intentions.

#1 rule...don't name sites in public discussions. PERIOD

[guest]

So, if I wanted to go to Moab with some of my BASE jumping friends, and none of us have ever been there, do we have to first get the permission from a "local"? That's just rediculous. It is my opinion that no jumper owns a site. After all, isn't freedome what jumping is all about? Courtesy is one thing, but territorialism is another. Bickering, bickering, bickering. Politics, politics, politics. Just because I put a parachute on my back and jump off of something doesn't mean that I automatically fall under the jurisdiction of somebody else's beliefs and ideals regaurding ethics or anything else. We are all free. Lets keep it like that. IM not saying there is no room for courtesy, thats not what IM saying at all. Lets be careful not to get carried away though and wreck the escence of what BASE jumping is for the individual. For me, jumping give me an overwhelming sence of peace and immense spiritual energy. I don't need anyone else to tell me how to behave. This is my opinion on the subject.

Often it is difficult to accurately convey a thought, or express emmotion electronically as we do on this forum. I hope I have typed out my thoughts accurately for you.

[guest]

That chip on yer shoulder is big enuf to spot from the roof. You'd be bummed if we came to your neighborhood and burnt your favorite sites by bringing all of our friends and maybe some media to boot.
Did the guy say anything about permission. I don't think so. I think it was more along the lines of a courtesy call to the locals for advice and beta.
There are different types of advice ranging from
1. The phone # of local rescue services 2. the best way to find a launch 3. how not to piss off other area users or jepordise the area for our intended use 4. there's a sleeping bag stashed under the flat rock for night jumps and on and on

be free but take advantage of the courtesy call

[guest]

OK. I would be bummed if someone burnt my favorite site. Thats why I don't burn sites. I never invited anyone to "your" site. I simply posted a message hoping to hook up with someone else who is headed that why already. I have been trying to meet some locals(Phoenix) since I am a local now too. I have jumped there the last 6 days in a row hoping to bump into someone to jump with and haven't seen a soul yet. I don't have a phone list of local flickers. I am not interested in pissing anyone off, I just want to jump just like the next guy. I really wish you would invite me to jump with you just once so you could see what kind of person I am(and that I have no 'chip on my shoulder'), and not just how I come across electronically. I think it is far to easy to be misinterpreted online, so I am no longer going to engage in any further discussion of this matter via this forum. Please contact me by e-mail if there is anything you would like to discuss with me. I never would have imagined that my original message, "Saguaro, AZ", in which I state my desire to run into some others to flick with and offer to bring/share a pack mat with, could have pissed off so many. I really hope that those of you may have upset are just an isolated few who are easily perturbed. I don't have a chip on my shoulder. But, I will admit I get a little twisted about all the negativity that is seamingly so quickly and easily expressed on this board. It seams like the complete oposite of what I experience when meating jumpers personally. I just don't see the same kind of awesome bond that exists between us when we are together being displayed online. Hmmmm.

Peace.

[guest]

Friend,
No harm, No foul. I think in retrospect my idea that one should contact the locals may have been interpreted as terratorialistic. I meant it more along the lines of keep the site safe and transparent to the rest of the whuffo world. Less of an ethics issue than a preservation issue.

The locals will show themselves to the discreet.

Peace back atcha
Jon

[imported_mknutson]

Hey guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is NOT what I ment to happen!

Most legal site I know of requires some sort of local notification.

Moab: SAR
Perrine: Sheriff DPT.
Kjerag: NBA
Interlaken: Air Glacier

And so on.....

This is NOT just the ethics I refer to...
There are so many things that are just "KNOWN" ethics that are not mentioned. This also refers to what may be said here on this forum.

I think everyone needs to stop bitching about "politics" or whatever else you want to blame it on. This is a matter of team work.
Remember that!

Team work.
:-( :-(
--
Thanks

Mick Knutson
BLiNC Magazine

"Everything you ever wanted to know about BASE Jumping, but didn't know who to ask."
--

[guest]

TO OUR MISGUIDED FRIEND FreeBird; I think you are missing the point of all this, my friend. If you come to Moab and do not call me, I would have no problem with that at all. However, since I always go out of my way to show new people all the sites I know of and help them get to them, you would be doing yourself a great disservice. When I lived in Atlanta, it was almost impossible to get onto any building without my selfless help and was possible to do many with my help. I advised every new visitor on access, bust potential, alarm systems, police patterns and so forth and so on. Attempting to do buildings in Atlanta and most other cities without local help most often resulted in failed access and/or busts. Why re-invent the wheel? This is not good for our sport, our access or our brotherhood/sisterhood. If you do not care about any of these things, screw you. You will end up tarred and feathered like the "FreeTurds" who have gone before you. So grow up and take some responsibility for your actions. Call the locals and they will pave the way for you to expand your freedoms and flaunt your individuality in a way that will greatly enhance your BASE experience without hurting your fellow BASE jumpers.

Sincerely,

Earl Redfern

[guest]

Mick, I know this was meant to be a discussion of ethics and my original post was just that. Unfortunately it happened to coincide with a post inviting people to a popular site by a person new to the area. He misinterpreted my post as a flame. We have communicated on this misunderstanding and hope to add to this thread rather than distract it further from it's intended course.
To all the board readers...I appologise for the distraction here. It was unintentional.
Now, would someone please post a point of ethics??!!

[Mike]

First of all, Moab is not just any site.

If you go to Anywhere, USA and burn someone's site, well that's really between you and the locals. If Moab burns, the whole BASE community will suffer a great deal--A high price to pay for your "freedom." That doesn't mean you have to contact a local each time and get a written invitation. What it means is you may have to follow a different code of ethics than you would at your own local low-profile sites.

With all the legal, quasi-legal, and not-yet-illegal sites we are finding these days, we're going to have to change our ways of thinking with regard to ethics in general. Moab is a great example. There are some legal sites in the area. We must treat this area very carefully in order to preserve that legal status. There are a lot of people working very hard and making huge sacrifices in order to prove that BASE jumping has its place...somewhere. Places like Moab present us with an opportunity to establish this sport with a more positive reputation. Thus far we're taking advantage of that opportunity; Vertigo has moved there, the IPBC has an event there. And most important, Base jumpers are there using good judgement and jumping those sites safely. Let's keep it that way.

This is not about how you handle yourself when on someone else's "territory." This is about establishing a code of ethics to be followed when jumping some of the more delicate sites. After all, it seems the NPS pays a great deal of attention to what goes on in Moab and other similar areas. Hell, they even participate in the rescues. They're not interested in our "spiritual energy", they want to see if we can do our thing and treat the area with respect at the same time. If you can do that without any local help, go right ahead. That's all the ethics you need.

With all this talk about freedom and peace, you may not be interested in legal base jumping at all...fine. But freedom only lasts so long until someone takes it from you. Those of us who have been busted, locked up, and treated like criminals know what legal base jumping is really worth.

[imported_mknutson]

Very well said!
--
Thanks

Mick Knutson
BLiNC Magazine

"Everything you ever wanted to know about BASE Jumping, but didn't know who to ask."
--

[guest]

- Video should not show any identifying signs of an illegal object.

Although we probably can't stop someone who is familiar with the object going "hey! that's the such and such bridge," we can stop blatant giveaways (like the MTV show with the sign that read XXXX river ____ fork) that show anyone with a map where the object is.

- Locals should be notified (that's already been discussed). Also, and conversely, locals should be willing to give out information, advice and help to visitors (or watch their objects burn). Just because we don't give help doesn't mean that the object won't be jumped. Most likely, it just increases the chance of burning the object. Obviously, locals will want to verify the identity of the visitor.

--Tom Aiello

[guest]

It’s funny . . .

Every BASE publication that's ever been printed about BASE jumping has run articles on *ethics.*

Except the first one.

When Carl Boenish published the "last" issue of BASE MAGAZINE (Dec 1981 issue #6) there are only 17 people in the whole world with a BASE number. Running into another BASE jumper at any particular site is cause for celebration not consternation.

For lack of a better term, I’ll call this the "Free BASE" era. :-)

When "BASELINE" magazine appeared, so did the need to start educating jumpers and the first ethics articles began to appear. Since then there have been many such pieces and recently I had the opportunity to gather and read all I could find, (including one I wrote in the mid-80s) and you know what?

BASE jumping changes so radically and so quickly these articles don't hold their relevance very long. And the basis of these articles seem to change with prevailing times and current issues.

For instance, the very first ones dealt mostly with environmental issues. Don't break locks, leave only footprints, we're just borrowing altitude, etc.

The next ones attacked the evils of the media, and how young BASE jumpers are seduced by the exposure. We learned that no matter the motives, BASE jumping for money or fame (when most do it for fun and challenge) makes you look cheesy in the end.

Then these articles began obsessing on the "image" of BASE jumping. We were starting to change from a bunch of pirates into a group of sportsman and the skulls & bones started their way down the flag pole.

Now, we live in a BASE world. We have the gear. We have the know-how, and we have the objects. This is the greatest time of our BASE jumping lives and what do we have?

An ethics problem . . .

But don't worry.

BASE jumping is an intangible thing you can’t rent, bottle or sell. No one person or group will ever really effect it. BASE jumping is, and always will be, a personal battle of will over altitude.

The latest ethics arugments don't involve ethics at all. They are all about "My Site VS your Site" and these are the most transient issues of all.

Sites that are hot today are cold tommorow.

In the end the only thing that will ever change about BASE jumping is us . . .

Nick_BR

[guest]

Does it strike anyone else as odd to be discussing the ethics of illegal jumps? I'm not talking about legal objects here. Does anybody else agree that illegal is by definition unethical, until the law is changed. I am curious to see if Mick can cover this in an "Ethics Document." I seems to me that to put on paper the ethical standards for breaking the law will only be used against us. What do you think?

[guest]

Nice try piggy.
Maybe you're not the devil,
but for sure a wolf in sheeps clothing.